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IceSage

3 Players: Laff, Hax Zinc, Malonman The Potato Thief- Voting Abuse (Doesn't Like Minis.)

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Name: laff

Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:10691269

Name: haX Zinc

Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:49950889

Name: Maloman the Potato Thief

Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:52628185

Was playing a hightower game. It was all good and fine for a bit. Then these guys (especially laff) initiated a voteban against player Querux. When asked why the reason was, "nobody likes mini sentries."

Screenshots:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/vf3jc6vhlqpy0p5/laff_1.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/view/0mn9q458af6mma1/laff_3.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/view/52gob9tcpkd3hu5/laff_4nobodylikesminis.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/view/nfxajg18dffn5rw/laff_2steamid.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/view/a5sdxgwt4c2cf12/laff_2.jpg

Update:

Started playing Engineer right now. Maloman is accusing me of "admin abuse" (I think he means donator abuse) because I'm playing mini-sentry engineer and it's abuse because "I'm pissing him off and he can't kick me."

Got a demo of that one too if you want.

Update 2:

Demo posted:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/wk92w4b29gw4n6j/goingmini_sentryengi_laff.dem

Voice chat comment from another player about how he was getting votekicked earlier for going Gunslinger engi too from the same 3 people, and telling me I'm "abusing admin" because they're unable to votekick me for playing Engineer.

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Feel free to upload further demos. Initially I don't see a problem here - they don't have donor status, so they're not abusing it by trying to kick someone. It's a little different if they're targeting someone and harassing them with this.

(Also, I went to go check the chat logs to see what was going on - "tryhard gramda-fucking faggot..." really? =P)

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Feel free to upload further demos. Initially I don't see a problem here - they don't have donor status, so they're not abusing it by trying to kick someone. It's a little different if they're targeting someone and harassing them with this.

(Also, I went to go check the chat logs to see what was going on - "tryhard gramda-fucking faggot..." really? =P)

That wasn't in this session. But yeah, I'm very colorful at times when certain players (friends) are online. tongue.png

Anyway, the point is they were putting up a voteban for everyone who went Gunslinger engi.

I think this type of thing needs to stop. People votebanning players for reasons like "Went mini-sentry engineer" isn't a valid reason to remove someone from the game. (Especially for 30 minutes.) I don't care if they have donator or not, nobody should be kicked for validly playing the game.

I think it's fine to harass people for it. Being like, "Wow you're a tryhard for capping / using mini-sentries, etc." But to make use of the voteban to do it? No, certainly not.

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That wasn't in this session. But yeah, I'm very colorful at times when certain players (friends) are online. tongue.png

Anyway, the point is they were putting up a voteban for everyone who went Gunslinger engi.

I think this type of thing needs to stop. People votebanning players for reasons like "Went mini-sentry engineer" isn't a valid reason to remove someone from the game. (Especially for 30 minutes.) I don't care if they have donator or not, nobody should be kicked for validly playing the game.

I think it's fine to harass people for it. Being like, "Wow you're a tryhard for capping / using mini-sentries, etc." But to make use of the voteban to do it? No, certainly not.

The only way a ban can go through is if the majority of the server sees you are doing something wrong.

There's nothing wrong with using the voteban system. Everyone has a right to.

If you are banned and feel it was done wrongfully you can post in the unban forums.

If you're not doing anything wrong you won't get banned or kicked. Simple as that.

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The only way a ban can go through is if the majority of the server sees you are doing something wrong.

There's nothing wrong with using the voteban system. Everyone has a right to.

If you are banned and feel it was done wrongfully you can post in the unban forums.

If you're not doing anything wrong you won't get banned or kicked. Simple as that.

First off, I'm defending the 3 engineers who got votebanned. (1 I witness, 2 others I heard about from the guy who was talking on voicechat.) I obviously didn't get banned for jack. Secondly, using a mini-sentry isn't against the rules. Just because people put up a ban and it goes through, doesn't mean that's not abuse or the correct course of action. Banning EVERY single gunslinger engineer because "They're using the gunslinger" isn't a legit reason.

If it is, I'll start putting up a vote for all gunslinger engineers to remove themselves from the server then. Save the griefers who are obviously abusing the voting plugin some time.

Additionally, the ban % ratio has been modified for awhile so that it goes through very easily. I see a bunch of poor people joining this server and getting banned for essentially no reason at all.

My apologies for sticking up for the little guys who probably found their way to LotusClan via Quickplay and wondered "what the fuck did I do?" when met with 3 assholes putting up a vote because they're butthurt they got shot by a mini-gun.

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I'm going to quote Darwin on this:

We can not influence behavior which is not conducted by our donators (such as 4 people typing "voteban" in chat and selecting you, and then over 70% of the server voting to ban you). I'm sorry, but democracy.
This doesn't seem like something that needs admin interference in my humble opinion. It takes 4 separate people to initiate a vote, and then the server to kick them - and that seems like democracy to me. I would suggest calling an admin next time you have problems, who can help sort out the situation. =)
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Okay, Gunslinger engis are against the rules and are to be banned on site. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

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I told you people were harassing players on Lotus and VOTEBANING THEM because of the reason "They went gunslinger engi" and "We can put up votebans to kick gunslinger engis, and if people press yes, it's okay, because it's a democracy."

So, if I feel like all Gunslinger engineers should be votebanned for playing gunslinger engineer... It's okay if that poor sap gets banned because the rest of the server pressed "YES" right?

That's what you just said.

Both people replying ignoring the fact that 3 players were completely griefing the server and using that exact same logic. So, what you're saying is... this post was useless as those 3 players aren't doing anything wrong... and votebanning players for 30 minutes because they're using Mini-Sentries is A-OKAY behavior.

I'm sorry, that's just not the Lotus I've come to know and love. I didn't realize we let griefing players abuse the voting functions now. I could have sworn it wasn't a-okay. How times have changed.

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I told you people were harassing players on Lotus and VOTEBANING THEM because of the reason "They went gunslinger engi" and "We can put up votebans to kick gunslinger engis, and if people press yes, it's okay, because it's a democracy."

So, if I feel like all Gunslinger engineers should be votebanned for playing gunslinger engineer... It's okay if that poor sap gets banned because the rest of the server pressed "YES" right?

That's what you just said.

Both people replying ignoring the fact that 3 players were completely griefing the server and using that exact same logic. So, what you're saying is... this post was useless as those 3 players aren't doing anything wrong... and votebanning players for 30 minutes because they're using Mini-Sentries is A-OKAY behavior.

I'm sorry, that's just not the Lotus I've come to know and love. I didn't realize we let griefing players abuse the voting functions now. I could have sworn it wasn't a-okay. How times have changed.

If the majority of the server votes to ban someone there is nothing we can do. We are also unable to micro-manage every action the people on Lotus servers make.

If you see behavior you believe to be ban-worthy feel free to use the !calladmin function.

Thank you for bringing to our attention these events.

Edited by MorW

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If the majority of the server votes to ban someone there is nothing we can do. We are also unable to micro-manage every action the people of Lotus servers make.

If you see behavior you believe to be ban-worthy feel free to use the !calladmin function.

Thank you for bringing to our attention these events.

You're not even reading any of the post properly, are you? Do you even know what you're even responding to? You're not even an administrator or Lotus member yet, you're a recruit. Are you in training? If so, you're doing a terrible job at it.

And yes, there is something you can do. When players join servers and abuse the voting plugin, that is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN a punishable offense. It's okay to deny any action on this report at this time... Though, you seem to be overlooking what exactly is being reported.

A set of particular players are abusing the voting functions... Which are meant to deal with troublesome players.. Not to treat Lotus as your own private server. This has been stated NUMEROUS times on these forums and through my own experience here for the past 6 years.

There's a reason why everyone one on of my favorite servers (Lotus Arena! Chicago) have been shitting their pants in fear of the admins because it used to be a tradition on that server to kick people for fuck-all reasons just for the hell of it. (Donator or non-donator, it wasn't acceptable, period.)

We used to have melee battles there all the time and when someone strayed from meleeing, we'd warn them a couple of times then kick them for "Not Meleeing." Though, guess what happened? Those guys who got kicked got mad, and complained on the forums... and a few regulars got a nice temp-ban for awhile for initiating the kick.

This is in no way different. Laff & co. tried to police the server as if it was there own and decided that "Mini-Sentry Engineers are not allowed to play." I'm sorry, but playing whatever class you want is not disruptive nor has it been a rule on Lotus to "not play a class." Just as there's no rule saying you "Can't shoot when the server is melee battling."

I'm 95% sure you're misreading this report / complaint. (Either that or are unaware of Lotus' own stance on things. Unless they've changed. Then in that case the same players are on Hightower again right now, and I'll help them get the votes out faster for removing those "troublesome engineers.")

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You witnessed one person get votebanned by these individuals, and according to hearsay (i.e. the guy in voice chat), two other people were also votebanned...

First off, I'm defending the 3 engineers who got votebanned. (1 I witness, 2 others I heard about from the guy who was talking on voicechat.) I obviously didn't get banned for jack.

That's all your screenshots and demo show.

I'm not going to hand out bans for one particular case of *individuals* initiating these kicks. If they were donors, it would be a different matter.

I actually visited the server shortly after you left and made sure everyone these knew how to use the !calladmin feature. I intend to visit it again, and if necessary, have a word with the people in question. This isn't open season on engies - if you encounter any more problems, simply use !calladmin for help. Let other's know about the command, and record demos of any further problems. If this is sustained behavior, it will be dealt with.

Secondly, I know you're frustrated that I don't feel this case merits immediate action, but you don't need to bash MorW and tell him he's doing a terrible job for trying to help. wink.png

If another admin feels differently they're free to act. =)

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Okay, Gunslinger engis are against the rules and are to be banned on site. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Hold yer britches, boy.

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I hate having the un-popular opinion, so I'm not going to step on toes, but I am going to give my $.02 I agree with icesage. It's bullshit. whether it is a democratic process or not, doesn't mean you can initiate a kick or ESPECIALLY a ban for a reason that doesn't warrant it. Somebody using a weapon you don't like, or even the majority of the server doesn't like, is not a legit reason to even start a ban vote. The "mini sentry on hightower" argument is as old as hightower itself. It's ridiculous, and my PERSONAL action, had I been called to the server for this, is there would be action taken against those starting the ban votes. Though I am only 1 admin, and others here have posted a conflicting opinion. For this reason, I won't be barging in waving my penis banhammer around. it has been discussed, and in the future if you witness something like this, use !calladmin, and have one of us deal with it in the moment.

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I agree that someone playing engie is an insufficient reason for votebans, that I would have intervened if I were there, and that if it's sustained behavior it needs to be addressed.

I don't agree with banning three people after the fact, when they weren't donors, based on what's been documented so far. It sounds like a majority of the "regulars" on the server might think votebanning engies with minis is ok - if that's the case the best way to handle this situation is to increase admin presence, get word out about the !calladmin feature, and warn people that it's not alright.

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I agree that someone playing engie is an insufficient reason for votebans, that I would have intervened if I were there, and that if it's sustained behavior it needs to be addressed.

I don't agree with banning three people after the fact, when they weren't donors, based on what's been documented so far. It sounds like a majority of the "regulars" on the server might think votebanning engies with minis is ok - if that's the case the best way to handle this situation is to increase admin presence, get word out about the !calladmin feature, and warn people that it's not alright.

Agreed.

Before anyone asks, this case is different from this simply because in the one I linked, people were on an insulting spree and generally calling each other "faggots" and "retarded idiots". I don't see that here.

Invite me to the server next time you're on and we'll play combat engy together ;)

*click*

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