A Note To Spies

[Melissia 7]

Backstab animations are now exactly as fast as normal attack animations. That is all. Have fun stabbin'.

[Rivanor 1]

Yes, but he has been nerfed severely in other ways to compensate.

[You suck and have no life 203]

Yes, but he has been nerfed severely in other ways to compensate.

like how idiot?

[Melissia 7]

I haven't seen any nerfs to the spy.

[PuRe Style 0]

like how idiot?

... idiot? That is not really nice.

[Nket 16]

Don't expect YouSuck to be nice, also they have not been nerfed. But now i spy check everyone with their melee weapon out, so i suppose it is kind of a nerf

[Sodium Bromate 0]

The angle at which you could backstab was reduced by a lot. Sidestabs are pretty much impossible now. You have to be completely behind your target to backstab them.

[Mike808 1]

The angle at which you could backstab was reduced by a lot. Sidestabs are pretty much impossible now. You have to be completely behind your target to backstab them.

yeah thats right

it makes me very sad

[Benny Hill 0]

The angle at which you could backstab was reduced by a lot. Sidestabs are pretty much impossible now. You have to be completely behind your target to backstab them.

Here's my theory: The old backstab algorithm was basically, if you are facing any part of the back half during the moment of clicking the stab button, it registered. This was bad because if you started stabbing and they flip around just after that, it was a "facestab".

The new one is less forgiving. As far as I can see, you have to be facing pretty much parallel to the person you're stabbing as well as behind them. They most likely removed the delay so that people wouldn't get annoyed by turning around just as they were stabbed.

I like the update, though. I think it's great because now there's a REAL learning curve on the spy (with the weapons). The bad spies can sorta distract the other team from the good spies.

EDIT: Also, it's fun being creative with the different weapons in different situations. I just wish they'd change the little icon of the class in the corner accordingly to show which weapon he's holding. And looking at the health of the enemy. For example, I saw a scout with like 20 health, i knew it was ok to shoot him since i was under cover anyway.

I think the updates will take a little while for me to get used to (you have to be much closer to someone before you stab) but all in all, I think it's better. Much easier to stab 'n sap, but only if the engie is facing the right way.

[+Henry Spencer 117]

I heard that headstabs are also not possible now. You have to be 100% behind a target to get a successful backstab, so anyone with their back pressed against a wall/corner is pretty safe from being attacked.

[Benny Hill 0]

I heard that headstabs are also not possible now. You have to be 100% behind a target to get a successful backstab, so anyone with their back pressed against a wall/corner is pretty safe from being attacked.

Yes, it's very annoying... A sniper in that little cubbyhole near the second cap, first stage of goldrush is pretty much safe from any spies. It's gonna take a little getting used to, just as I finally perfected my spy.

[Sodium Bromate 0]

There are a bunch of petitions on the official Steam forum, and most people are trying to get aerial/flickstabs back. Hopefully Valve will give it some consideration.

[h3gi 5]

This was bad because if you started stabbing and they flip around just after that, it was a "facestab".

That's not the facestab people complained about. I've actually had it where I would get the old backstab animation, they'd turn around, and it would do normal stab damage most of the time. The facestabs Valve tried to fix was when the enemy would be facing you the entire time, you'd get the normal stab animation, and it would still count as a backstab kill. THAT was a problem.

Also, from what I've heard, it was their intention to have sidestabs and topstabs from the beginning, so they were reluctant to take them out, but "this was the only way." YES this is a nerf, but I do like the new backstab animation. They're both good in different ways, but old flickstabs could get you the same speed of the new backstab if you were good at it.

In addition, there's this new silly glitch where enemies would be able to see your name/health if you disguised as your own team. It's rather annoying.

I welcome the weapon disguise mechanic whole-heartedly. It's nice to be able to know your Engineer disguise can be holding a wrench now.

[Benny Hill 0]

It's nice to be able to know your Engineer disguise can be holding a wrench now.

Yes, it's very confusing for engies if they're all gathered around the sentry trying to fix it being sapped and they all are wrenching. "Which engie is not like the others?" (the one that appears to be placing something on the sentry rather than hitting it )

[friedrice 8]

Just wanted to put my two cents out on this. I played spy on Egypt and Gravel Pit today, and noticed no difference. On Egypt I backstabbed 5 people in a row. Personally I'm happy about this update because before it was almost an insta death to get in a melee fight with a spy.

Also, I love the people who create an account just to say something stupid, as in this case:

Yes, but he has been nerfed severely in other ways to compensate.

[»Enigma« 0]

i like the quick backstabs. too bad they took away the sidestab

[LunchBox 10]

Also, I love the people who create an account just to say something stupid, as in this case:

I love the people who feel the need to say something like this. Also, Rivanor's account was created in January.

[Miyari 33]

Another note to spies: GTFO.

[You suck and have no life 203]

The moral of the story is.

Me: 1

Stupid People: 0

[Melissia 7]

I hope the spy gets their update next.

Something like...

Silenced pistol (no sound to the other team when firing, deals criticals only on headshots, reduced damage on non-critical hits)

Portable Cloaking Device (replaces the sapper; use drains your cloak energy entirelly and requires a full energy meter. Cloaks a team member for ten seconds or until they fire their weapon. Spy is unable to cloak or regain cloak energy during this time)

Stealth Blade (may use while cloaked, but takes 10% of the cloak meter to swing and cannot swing without at least ten percent of the meter full. Hitting with the knife decloaks immediently)

Edited March 2, 2009 by Melissia

[Nket 16]

lets give them a nuke, yes that will work just fine..

[The Lorax 25]

lets give them a nuke, yes that will work just fine..

Really, might as well give them a one shot kill weapon, rename the game spy fortress 2 and inform everyone to abandon demomen and take up spy, it's easy!

[Benny Hill 0]

I hope the spy gets their update next.

Something like...

Silenced pistol (no sound to the other team when firing, deals criticals only on headshots, reduced damage on non-critical hits)

Portable Cloaking Device (replaces the sapper; use drains your cloak energy entirelly and requires a full energy meter. Cloaks a team member for ten seconds or until they fire their weapon. Spy is unable to cloak or regain cloak energy during this time)

Stealth Blade (may use while cloaked, but takes 10% of the cloak meter to swing and cannot swing without at least ten percent of the meter full. Hitting with the knife decloaks immediently)

With proper balancing those upgrades could be neat, but not OP. I like those ideas. The cloak think would really promote teamwork since the spy would have to choose good people to cloak and they'd have to use it wisely.

This would be a great way to get an engie behind enemy lines, for example, and keep the enemy on their toes.

[Melissia 7]

The Lorax, Nket: Ugh, shutup. I just want Valve to give the spy more options for different playstyles. The silenced pistol would make the spy able to use their main gun as a stealth tool too. The cloaking tool is not useful to the spy at all, only to his teammates, and entirelly replaces the sapper-- the spy gives up the ability to sap for this tool that the spy themselves cannot use. The stealth blade would allow spies to get the first backstab much easier, but at a price-- their melee attacks would drain their stealth meter, which if you've been cloaking to try and get behind someone is alerady going to be fairly low.

None of these would make the spy invulnerable to being spychecked, and none of them would remove the requirement of skill from the spy class.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Melissia

[+Henry Spencer 117]

I like the primary and sapper replacements, but the knife still seems a bit OP to me. The cloak's advantage is that it keeps you from being seen while moving amongst the enemy, but the drawback is that you cannot attack. This is well-balanced, and something I don't think VALVe would be willing to change. Also, since dropped weapons and ammo boxes can be picked up for more cloaking time, once you get behind a group, all you'd have to do is stab, cloak, grab weapon, and keep going. Your cloak meter would remain perpetually charged.

Now, if you said something like 20, maybe 25%... I could go for that. Since weapons replace 40-50% (can't remember which) of the meter, that would give spies a much smaller window of opportunity for sneak attacks, but could still work on whole groups with their backs to you. Also, since ammo boxes are all over the place, still having 25% of your cloak energy available after moving behind enemy lines should not be too difficult for an experienced player, but definitely more difficult for newer players, or those who do not play spy much. There would be a definite learning curve there.

Thoughts?

Actually, now that I think about it, the gun would be rather difficult to use. I mean, using a pistol that will undoubtedly have spread to try and get headshots would be a bitch. I think if you maybe reduce the damage 50% for front attacks, then give all crits for hits from the back, that would work out well. Portable cloak idea is fucking awesome, though I don't see too much use for it in regular combat.