Unfortunate Means

[Sovereign 0]

Hey guys. I just wanted to write this to express how I was feeling about something in the servers. Firstly, I love Lotus and it's fanbase, but I just can't ignore how some of the server's mechanics are hurting gameplay. I write this purely as informative, I do not intend to flame the members of Lotus or Mana, but it needs to come out.

What I am talking about is the autobalance system in the Team Fortress servers. Firstly, I understand why it exists. It HAS to exist for teams to be balanced. The fact that it exists is not the issue here. The issue is how (probably intentionally) broken it is. Let me explain. Today I was playing with a friend on the blue team, we were getting our asses handed to us, but hey, at least we were having fun playing together. Then, of course, I get autobalanced. While mildly annoying (and though, I swear to god, it seems to happen to me more than anyone else... I know it doesn't) I shrug it off and wait for a spot on blue to open back up. Here's the kicker: eventually two spots on Blue open up, and I try to switch back, but the server WILL NOT LET ME. It kills me, then shoves me back to red with the insulting message "You have been autobalanced. Be a good little boy and stay there." So now, the game is intentionally keeping the game unbalanced, even while the players are trying to balance it. What?!

Here's what annoys me:

1. I am assuming it is kicking me to red because I was recently autobalanced. I understand why you would implement this, lotus, but when you think about this, it is counterintuitive to "fun", which is the entire point of this game. If I am trying to get to the other team, it is probably because I want to play with a friend. Think about it. If you are trying to keep one team from getting more powerful than the other, then you need to realize that you are stepping in where you shouldn't be stepping in. At the risk of sounding like a Team Fortress 2 libertarian, you need to butt out.

2. This is the only other reason I can come up with why you would prevent game balance: cash money. Donators receive (among other things obviously) immunity to autobalance. By harassing players with unnecessary autobalance, many players may get either fed up and pay $10 to not be heckled by a server mechanic, give up and play on the team you don't want to play on, or do as I did and leave the server after being unable to join the desired team after ten minutes of trying. If this really is a marketing decision, then it is a cheap, low-blow to your fanbase, and an overall abysmal business decision.

I used to donate to the servers monthly to receive protection from autobalance, and more importantly, support my favorite servers. I ended up stopping payment because I got short on money, and I have to say, I think I'm glad I did. Instead of making me want to pay money to alleviate this problem, I want to stop using these servers completely.

Either way, this is something that needs to be remedied, and I hope some of you may feel the same way. I would appreciate keeping any responses to this civil and constructive, as this is something that means a lot to me and many of you as well, I'm sure. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and have a good day.

-Sovereign

[CloakedStarship 7]

Scroll down to Mana's post.

[Sovereign 0]

Scroll down to Mana's post.

Thank you, I appreciate this post. I tried searching for posts about autobalance frustration from other players and the search engine repeatedly froze up on me, netting me no responses.

Regarding what Mana said... The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just because that might sound good on paper, doesn't mean it works as intended. When a player decides to quit because he is tired of being harassed instead of quitting, the player slot will be wasted regardless. Especially if there is a low number of players on the server. The better solution to this would be to limit the number of spectator slots to 2 or 1.

Mana. You have to understand that as a frequent player, I have never heard of players being frustrated about wasted slots, but I have heard A LOOOOOOT of frustration about autobalancing. I (respectfully) really want you to reconsider these server rules.

-Sovereign.

[+Henry Spencer 117]

Is it possible to restrict spectator slots? Perhaps after the first 2 minutes of a round, it would go into effect? This would help against the mass spectating that happens at the end of rounds in an attempt to balance shit out/get on the winning team.

[Mana 3,867]

Mana. You have to understand that as a frequent player, I have never heard of players being frustrated about wasted slots, but I have heard A LOOOOOOT of frustration about autobalancing.

As I mentioned previously, I would rather have people quit than waste slots on spec. Because if a slot is empty, someone else might join it. That someone will probably not mind joining whichever team is open. Now, if the slot is being wasted by someone who is "spectating" because he/she wants to get on a certain team, then that's something else.

Besides, I don't want to disable spectating in general as that would prevent certain things (afk auto kicker, recording hackers) completely.

Once you get autobalanced you might get autobalanced again. You aren't just locked to a team. Also once the timer runs out you are free to change teams. After the initial stacking problems (autobalance by team switch was not being accounted for) I haven't really seen times where autobalance would stack teams and prevent people from evening them out. At least not by more than 1 or 2 players.

Also, while some people complain, others thank me by saying "these are the most even teams I have seen on this server in a while" even while their 'server friends' rage .

In any case, if enforcing leads to teams being stacked often enough then it will be modified to allow players to switch teams when the other team has been... oh say down 2 players for a minute or something like that. Or we could just modify Valve's autobalance system to be far more aggressive* but I'd rather leave it at default as it is (less chance an update would break something).

*The autobalance system waits before balancing people, this can be removed. Also it is more likely to balance certain classes than others. Just like how it is more likely to autobalance people who have recently connected. Hell it could even balance living players and so on.

[Sovereign 0]

As I mentioned previously, I would rather have people quit than waste slots on spec. Because if a slot is empty, someone else might join it. That someone will probably not mind joining whichever team is open. Now, if the slot is being wasted by someone who is "spectating" because he/she wants to get on a certain team, then that's something else.

Mana, Thank you for the reply. I am glad you are so involved.

I understand what you mean. This still does not seem like a good fix though. What I mean is, this. If a player gets autobalanced > player rages> joins-spectator-to-join-previous-team, then that is bad. However, if say, player gets autobalanced > player stays on same team until a slot opens up > can't join... > player then REALLY rages, then THAT is a problem. And that is what happened to me. I was not wasting a slot, but I still couldn't be free to do what I wanted. Obviously example one is what you are trying to prevent, while example two is collateral effect, but notice which one rages harder. This is just way too much intervention, and I'm quite frankly not willing to deal with worrying about it happening every time I join a lotus server. If there's no way to treat player team switching transitions like "red to blue" differently than "spectator to blue" (which would also fix the problem), then I feel it should be scrapped altogether. Being an honest player, being bossed around by a server is very frustrating, and any kind of "zone" you were into when playing the game is now broken, because you are trying to get on the right team for 10 years, instead of play. Obviously being a donator in the past has spoiled me a bit, as I didn't have to worry about being autobalanced, but my gripes here aren't so much about being autobalanced, than the way it is being handled.

Also, regarding the "players MIGHT join a slot" thing. This would only matter if the server is completely full. If it has less than 10 players or so on each team (which is quite common late at night), it would only hurt the number of people playing if people ragequit rather than wait it out.

I feel as though during these hours, there are more players coming and going, which would only add to the game inbalance.

Again, thank you for your time everyone.

-Sovereign

[Sovereign 0]

I find it hard to believe that nobody else has a problem with this.

[SatansDankWeed 2]

i went my first few years playing on lotus swearing i would never donate and that its something i can live without... Then... one day i got auto'ed and that little message popped up,"now be a good little boy and stay" i raged for a few mins, msg'ed mana. and finally figured that it was easier to just donate and have a happier time playing.

The End.

[Mana 3,867]

i went my first few years playing on lotus swearing i would never donate and that its something i can live without... Then... one day i got auto'ed and that little message popped up,"now be a good little boy and stay" i raged for a few mins, msg'ed mana. and finally figured that it was easier to just donate and have a happier time playing.

The End.

Yeah I thought "boy" sounded better than the previous word that was used there. I think it changed again now to something else even.

Anyway I'm closing this thread since it was died, prior to your revival.