Changes To Voteban System.

[Bombz 31]

There are a few people who keep coming onto Dustbowl Chicago who play as Heavy and are cheating. I've reported the same guy 3 or 4 different times yet he's back again. There is absolutely no telling how many accounts this guy bought when TF2 was on sale for a buck.

Then there is another guy who does the same thing, I'm not sure if it's the same person.

Is there currently a way to implement a call admin function which will bring an admin onto the servers? If not, will there be or are there any plans for it?

A lot of players on the server will refuse to participate in the voteban when it happens because either A) They don't realize the player is cheating or They don't care enough.

This presents a problem because, #1 votebans require something like an 85% voteban to pass. The second part is, the votebans are only very short, 30 minutes if I remember correctly. I propose that if the players are going to more or less purge the cheaters and disruptive players that the voteban % is lowered some and/or the time a person is banned for is increased. 70% sounds more fair, if not, the time could use a bump. I think 3 days would be sufficient. If a person was truly banned for something they didn't deserve they'd report it here anyway. As it stands, the cheaters who get banned don't suffer real consequences because the ban time is just too short. Effectively policing a server as players also requires us to drop from our team and go into spectator mode. This also poses problems, the first being that we're not helping our team anymore and the second problem being that usually they quit doing whatever they were doing when a player swaps to spectator.

[Jonnyp 9]

Keep taking demos, we'll keep banning.

Why so serious all the time?

You also ignored the majority of what his post was about which is quite unhelpful.

I've never really experienced any problems with hackers or the voteban system on Lotus servers so I can't give an opinion either way, although 85% does seem a bit high. It would mean on a 24 man (or woman) server only 3 people would have to object for it to fail (correct me if my math is flawed). But I guess if the ban period goes up the percentage would need to go up appropriately as well so there is less chance of an unfair banning.

Also, does anyone know a good way to convert demo's to a more common format such as MP4? In all honesty I haven't had a look around yet but was just curious if there is something anyone can recommend?

Jon

[Bombz 31]

Why so serious all the time?

You also ignored the majority of what his post was about which is quite unhelpful.

I've never really experienced any problems with hackers or the voteban system on Lotus servers so I can't give an opinion either way, although 85% does seem a bit high. It would mean on a 24 man (or woman) server only 3 people would have to object for it to fail (correct me if my math is flawed). But I guess if the ban period goes up the percentage would need to go up appropriately as well so there is less chance of an unfair banning.

Also, does anyone know a good way to convert demo's to a more common format such as MP4? In all honesty I haven't had a look around yet but was just curious if there is something anyone can recommend?

Jon

Thanks. I understand if Lotus can't 24/7 police their own servers. This isn't a small task to handle at all as people get reported for just about anything. However, since the player base is tasked with this, it'd be nice if the voteban system was a bit easier or simply more effective. 30 minutes just isn't much of a penalty. They can come back quickly. Normally this might not be the hugest problem if you can reliably catch demos and get a cheater banned, but when you're talking about a habitual one who apparently has tons of TF2 accounts, it is.

[SatansDankWeed 2]

maybe if you took a DEMO of a hacker hacking and then a voteban not passing at 84% you would get somewhere with the lotus staff

[Bombz 31]

maybe if you took a DEMO of a hacker hacking and then a voteban not passing at 84% you would get somewhere with the lotus staff

Would todays example be sufficient?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=99KEX2K0

[chris.crowder 0]

http://forums.gamingterritory.com/forum/143-ban-requests/

Also, votebans are not usually 30 minutes. They can last for days, depending on whether or not Gabe is currently eating Krispy Kreme doughnuts, phase of the moon, and time of day.

Is this a new change? Votebans have always been 30 minutes; it used to say it after a vote.

Experience - I've had my fair share of banning.

[Mana 3,867]

Is this a new change? Votebans have always been 30 minutes; it used to say it after a vote.

Experience - I've had my fair share of banning.

It's been saying that for years. It's never been 30 minutes though.

It wasn't changed on purpose. This way certain people might be more inclined to post a ban request (hopefully with a demo) if they think that the person will be back in 30 mins.

[poobah 0]

It's been saying that for years. It's never been 30 minutes though.

It wasn't changed on purpose. This way certain people might be more inclined to post a ban request (hopefully with a demo) if they think that the person will be back in 30 mins.

It's been like that for months on dustbowl. Voteban is 30 minutes. And as one of the regulars on that server, I can say the hacker continues to come back in from different accounts. If the voteban has never been 30 minutes, then something went wrong for the dustbowl ban setting. It should be longer, but is there not a way to get rid of the hacker once and for all (maybe through IP ban)? I have seen Fanny's thread with multiple demos, if the hacker has 30 accounts that he bought for a dollar each, does that mean we need to record 30 demos and ask admins to ban him 30 times? I find that a waste of time for the admins and for us and it also makes the gameplay not enjoyable for other players too because 1) they are getting killed by the hacker 2) too much distraction from voteban/votekick along with people who aren't convinced the person is hacking because they never specc'd or does not have the skill/experience to detect it. Furthermore, the % of votes required for a temporary 30 min ban is way too high. The hacker does have friend(s) that come in with him as a personal medic and other classes so when a voteban takes place, they would vote no (trolls on the server also vote no). It only takes a few votes to save him from the temporary ban. We're bringing this up because it's affecting the gaming experience on this server and it's affecting the reputation of your servers.

[FunkyFresh 68]

We're bringing this up because it's affecting the gaming experience on this server and it's affecting the reputation of your servers.

Not really. Just another nuisance that'll be banned via demos instead of actually implementing any kind of Moderator/Admin team onto the servers. It's the biggest reason as to why I stopped donating, woop woop.

Until there is a team assigned by Mana, which will never happen btw, all these problem kids will be only handled by demos. Eventually.

[Bombz 31]

I think keeping the number of in-game admins at an absolute minimum keeps the level of admin abuse, a big problem in many communities, hovering around zero. It's a smart way of managing the empire of servers Mana runs.

As opposed to donor abuse?

Every system has its drawbacks. My only request is that since the donors and users of the server are tasked with removing cheaters, that it's made a bit easier. Votebans shouldn't be so hard to pass on obvious cheaters and someone like the guy I've reported who has seemingly limitless amounts of accounts should be IP banned if at all possible. I understand that if someone is determined, IP bans are easy to avoid too. Most of the time cloning a mac address will get you a new IP, but still, it's worth a shot.

[FunkyFresh 68]

I think keeping the number of in-game admins at an absolute minimum keeps the level of admin abuse, a big problem in many communities, hovering around zero. It's a smart way of managing the empire of servers Mana runs.

I can absolutely agree with that, absolutely. Admin abuse is what got Nket dropped from Admin and Miyari something or another happened to her, but I don't really give two shits about whatever happened with people who do not frequent Lotus anymore.

There are no active in-game admins to begin with, from what I have seen in the last couple years of being here.

[Mana 3,867]

It's been like that for months on dustbowl. Voteban is 30 minutes.

There is no way it's 30 minutes. Unless you voteban the wrong person. It's just not how our voteban system works.

As opposed to donor abuse?

Not much of an issue, donors can only start votes, more than half the server must agree with them before a vote passes.

I've reported who has seemingly limitless amounts of accounts should be IP banned if at all possible.

Votebans also IP ban, but IP ban won't be extended to any other bans because IPs change too easily and too often.

Just some stats:

Over the last 4 or 5 months there have been

518,750 unique steam ids

with

981,972 unique IP addresses associated with above steam ids

with

1,039,381 total IP addresses used (this includes same ip, different steam id)

[FunkyFresh 68]

You've never seen Mana in-game? Also I'm pretty sure Josh has some admin on the West Coast servers.

Both of which barely play, ever. When Mana comes onto stocks 2, it's to show off some stupid new hat he has or brag about his big screen.

Hence why I bolded the word active admins. I wish you had in-game admin, you at least play on the servers for awhile.

[DeJaDeW 83]

Both of which barely play, ever. When Mana comes onto stocks 2, it's to show off some stupid new hat he has or brag about his big screen.

Hence why I bolded the word active admins. I wish you had in-game admin, you at least play on the servers for awhile.

Afro & me both active & have access to ban players but not in-game. Only with web base admin system.

[poobah 0]

There is no way it's 30 minutes. Unless you voteban the wrong person. It's just not how our voteban system works.

I am starting to find it rather amusing about how you would not even bother checking, only stating things based off of what you think it is. It's your server, check it, it's a fact that it's a mere 30 minutes on dustbowl.

[Mana 3,867]

I am starting to find it rather amusing about how you would not even bother checking, only stating things based off of what you think it is. It's your server, check it, it's a fact that it's a mere 30 minutes on dustbowl.

I did check, I checked the plugin source before I made my reply.

Not to mention, even if it was actually banning for 30 minutes. The bans would NOT last just 30 minutes because they are ONLY cleaned up on map change. The dustbowl server only changes maps once every 3 or 4 hours (depending on extend votes).

You should read my previously reply as I don't think you understand why it says 30 minutes.

[Bombz 31]

Bottom line is, this is the problem.

1. Concerned cheater keeps coming back with new accounts and different names. It's obviously the same guy based on what he's doing and the classes he keeps playing. He usually keeps the same avatar too.

2. Votebans are ineffective because A) They're too hard to pass. Regardless of time, 30 minutes or 30 hours, it's too short. If it's going to be an overwhelming majority vote at 80%, safe to say the server populace doesn't want said player playing there. C) It takes time to pass the ban and it disrupts gameplay. Not only that, but the server starts attacking other players on it because "They're whining that someone is better than us" either refusing to accept that he cheats or not realizing it.

3. Spectating the player would be worthwhile except. A) Numerous accounts. Toggles his cheat. C) We've got to go into spectator under different names by disconnecting, disrupting our OWN play time to catch him. Only then is it possible to get a demo of him and sometimes not even then.

4. The problem is, it's nothing but damage control and reactive rather than proactive. Sure, he may finally get one of his 50 accounts banned, but it's AFTER he has been playing a few hours and ruining the game play on the server.

5. I realize there is no one end all solution to this, but the attitude of "Just submit a demo" is a bit condescending. I'm doing everything I can to submit demos of this guy and keep him off the server. But to that end, it's also ruining my game play and experience. What ticked me off is in the thread where I was submitting demos/id's of this guy, it got locked. There were 2 particular cheaters. One was sandvich god, the other is the guy that keeps coming back over and over. Lady Gaga/Bill Gates/Repulsive Dancing are some of the names. Rather than just take my word for it when I gave him a new steamid, he locked it and wanted me to create a new thread. We've established this guy has a bunch of accounts, why not just quickly look at the steamid I submit and see if it's a match or close match based on IP and just ban him? I have to keep resubmitting demos of this one particular guy which has become a huge challenge.

I donate because I like Lotus servers. I don't want that opinion changed, but it's starting to.

[Mana 3,867]

Bottom line is, this is the problem.

1. Concerned cheater keeps coming back with new accounts and different names. It's obviously the same guy based on what he's doing and the classes he keeps playing. He usually keeps the same avatar too.

2. Votebans are ineffective because A) They're too hard to pass. Regardless of time, 30 minutes or 30 hours, it's too short. If it's going to be an overwhelming majority vote at 80%, safe to say the server populace doesn't want said player playing there. C) It takes time to pass the ban and it disrupts gameplay. Not only that, but the server starts attacking other players on it because "They're whining that someone is better than us" either refusing to accept that he cheats or not realizing it.

3. Spectating the player would be worthwhile except. A) Numerous accounts. Toggles his cheat. C) We've got to go into spectator under different names by disconnecting, disrupting our OWN play time to catch him. Only then is it possible to get a demo of him and sometimes not even then.

4. The problem is, it's nothing but damage control and reactive rather than proactive. Sure, he may finally get one of his 50 accounts banned, but it's AFTER he has been playing a few hours and ruining the game play on the server.

5. I realize there is no one end all solution to this, but the attitude of "Just submit a demo" is a bit condescending. I'm doing everything I can to submit demos of this guy and keep him off the server. But to that end, it's also ruining my game play and experience.

I donate because I like Lotus servers. I don't want that opinion changed, but it's starting to.

I don't think its too short. What if you voteban the wrong person? Or someone who wasn't hacking at all? A voteban will last longer if it passes quickly (which is what happens when other people on the server think a person is hacking).

If a voteban is hard to pass then it would seem people don't think that person is hacking.

Not to mention our CSS servers use even higher ban percentages and I keep hearing complaints about votebans on people who aren't hacking pass.

I require demos from my other admins as well. And I do remove bans when I can't find more info on their steam ids.

If someone gets banned without any proof then they will unbanned if they post an unban request.

[Bombz 31]

I don't think its too short. What if you voteban the wrong person? Or someone who wasn't hacking at all? A voteban will last longer if it passes quickly (which is what happens when other people on the server think a person is hacking).

If a voteban is hard to pass then it would seem people don't think that person is hacking.

Not to mention our CSS servers use even higher ban percentages and I keep hearing complaints about votebans on people who aren't hacking pass.

I require demos from my other admins as well. And I do remove bans when I can't find more info on their steam ids.

If someone gets banned without any proof then they will unbanned if they post an unban request.

He's flying under the radar because he's using no spread, which is only obvious if you spectate him. So a lot of novice or new players aren't seeing it. I mean, he's not flying around the map at 10x speed or headshotting everyone so he's not cheating, according to them. It just seems to me at this point this isn't something that's worth the headache and requires a call for help system. I'm not gonna be bothered to keep this guy off the server if it is going to be so difficult The people on Dustbowl Chicago can keep playing with this cheater.

[Mana 3,867]

He's flying under the radar because he's using no spread, which is only obvious if you spectate him. So a lot of novice or new players aren't seeing it. I mean, he's not flying around the map at 10x speed or headshotting everyone so he's not cheating, according to them. It just seems to me at this point this isn't something that's worth the headache and requires a call for help system. I'm not gonna be bothered to keep this guy off the server if it is going to be so difficult The people on Dustbowl Chicago can keep playing with this cheater.

If it's not a problem to most of the players then it won't be emptying a server, so it's not really a big problem. But I do understand, don't get me wrong.

You can get me a list of his steam ids and I will check to see if he's using the same IP. If he is, I can blanket ban the rest of his accounts that have been discovered by our tracker so far.

[Bombz 31]

If it's not a problem to most of the players then it won't be emptying a server, so it's not really a big problem. But I do understand, don't get me wrong.

You can get me a list of his steam ids and I will check to see if he's using the same IP. If he is, I can blanket ban the rest of his accounts that have been discovered by our tracker so far.

Sent via PM.

[No longer a Sexy King:^) 5,592]

There's admins on usa but not in uk, just saying. . . and no i'm not trying to get admin powers

[Bombz 31]

There's admins on usa but not in uk, just saying. . . and no i'm not trying to get admin powers

Well I used to play with you and you don't seem like the kind of guy who would abuse them.

[No longer a Sexy King:^) 5,592]

Well I used to play with you and you don't seem like the kind of guy who would abuse them.

We had a clan =3

[Bombz 31]

We had a clan =3

yeah I remember, xt right.