Ban Request - Echo

[Razor1491 0]

Ban Request - echo

Sun 02, 2009 24/7 2 Fort - 9-10PM Est

Me(razor) and Merk(A popular regular on 2Fort) have both said Echo gets bullshit shots, Today I got pissed enough to actually record him, and found out some interesting things like how he prefires peekers, clearly sees people through walls. And is just an overall terrible regular, hes been playing there for a while and has over 1000 kills on the server, Which I suppose isn't hard when you cheat. I'm not sure if he is aimbotting also, but he is clearly walling, If you look at some of his headshots, they clearly are way above the player and inch or so, or they aren't on the player at all.

Hope hes banned, 2Fort is serious business.

Here is a link to the demo of his actions:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jvoddjh3ehn/banrequest_echo.dem

WHEN PLAYING DEMO TYPE THIS IS CONSOLE:

SV_CHEATS 1

r_drawothermodels 2

Lastly, here is his steam id:

# 6929 "echo" STEAM_0:0:25454397 21:12 60 0 active

[Captain Planet 28]

Hope hes banned, 2Fort is serious business.

I lol'd and stopped reading

[Razor1491 0]

I lol'd and stopped reading

It's a 2fort joke.

[Squirrel 1]

Lol wow

[Nemisis 0]

I also frequent this server and it is becoming fairly obvious that echo has an unfair advantage over all of the rest of the players. He also uses this unfair advantage to belittle other players and constantly tries to stir up arguments during matches.

[echo 0]

I was considering just letting this work its self out, because it's just that stupid. But I feel the need to post and defend myself, because this post is just that stupid.

-"Today I got pissed enough to actually record him, and found out some interesting things like how he prefires peekers, clearly sees people through walls."

You spectated me out of aggravation, I'm not surprised you're making stupid accusations to follow up. I'm gonna be brutally honest here, you're a bad sniper. You know, the one who creeps around a corner slowly with a charged shot, ready to shoot at the first person he sees? Yeah, I feed off those type of snipers. I see through walls? It's really not hard to rest your crosshair on the wall and wait for some noob to slowly walk out from behind the wall in scope and shoot them. It's not even really that hard to put your crosshair a bit further away from the wall and shoot someone who wants to just walk out. Especially when my teammates call out "Top left," and I know a majority of snipers are going to try and creep out like total morons.

-"And is just an overall terrible regular, hes been playing there for a while and has over 1000 kills on the server, Which I suppose isn't hard when you cheat. " Really? This is just retarded. It honestly looks like you just threw crap in to make this more believable. I have **barely** over 1,000 kills, I checked yesterday and saw I had roughly 1100. My buddy LETHAL, another lotus regular, has over **9,000** kills. So yeah... Way to be stupid.

-"I'm not sure if he is aimbotting also, but he is clearly walling, If you look at some of his headshots, they clearly are way above the player and inch or so, or they aren't on the player at all." I'm not sure if this is lag or not, but my shots all definitely hit on the snipers heads on my screen. I don't know how them not doing so on a cheap demo makes me a cheater, but I guess you need all the dirt you can get for this lame accusation. I don't aimbot, really. What fun is it to watch a bot shoot everybody in the face while you kick back and do nothing?

I don't aimbot, I don't wallhack. A horrible sniper who can't even make it on the scoreboard crying that I do so is really just wasting my time. I'm telling everyone now: I do not cheat. If you don't believe me, that's your problem. I'm just telling you the fact of the matter.

I really don't want to get banned from the lotus server, it's one I enjoy playing on with my friends- it's a good server. I especially don't want to get banned from it over nothing.

~echo

[Squirrel 1]

ok honestly remember this... his shots will look different on our screen then it will no his though.. i dont see anything fishy here and i know echo play's 24/7 and he is a good player so i honestly don't see anything wrong with this.

[Merk 0]

For those who dont know:

-"Cham hacks, Chameleon skins, or chams for short, are a very common form of cheating in online first-person shooters, which generally replace player models with brightly colored skins, often in neon red/yellow and blue/green colors. Chams are wallhacked skins that change color depending on whether the model is visible. For instance, If an enemy's head is showing, it would be a different color from the rest of the model, giving the user a very large advantage over non-cheat users, especially in games in which camouflage on player models is negated by the extremely bright colors or when the cheat user comes to walls which he or she may shoot through."

I am confident in saying that Echo is chamming. It can be pretty obvious when a play prefires someone when having no prior visual of the target. The main reason he is a suspect is because he prefires everytime someone breifly exposed. He makes shots in moments of split second exposure/LoS to the point it would be near impossible to make the shot unless he were able to see them before hand; hence the cham. As far as aimbot its a little more difficult to identify. I've been told from various sources that aimbot can be set to have hit percentages in specific area's such as the body/head; specifically "hitbox aimbot". With the "hitbox aimbot" you dont need to necessarialy be aiming at the area your trying to hit. You can shoot dead air and still hit the player. Im not going to accuse him of aimbot right now, that honestly wasnt what i was looking for, so i'd have to do further observation. Although there were a few occurences where his cross hairs weren't anywhere near the persons head yet managed to get a headshot. Yes it can be argued as lag, although highly doubt it though. Razor and myself spec'd him and saw the same exact thing. Razor and I both have great pings on the server and so does Echo. Lag isnt the issue and the demo quality was just the same as when we were watching him.

Also, on what Nemesis said about Echo starting arguements with other players. Thats generally just a part of his personality. He uses his performance in game to set this preeminent image of himself. I accused him of being illegitimate once before in game and in his defense, he changed the topic and brought up irrelevant subjects which had nothing to do with TF2. The best way to ignore elitest comments is to Mute Player.

I made an outline of specific moments thoughout the whole length of the demo. The purpose of this outline is to point out what to look for on the other end as well as his own. (The noted time maybe be a little off, give or take.)

Demo Outline: (Here are a few moments. I didnt feel like it was necessary to type them all for something so obvious.)

00:02:56 - His erratic moments stop and he happens to look at the wall that a player is behind. (The sniper was too far away from the wall for anyone to have called out his position. The position of the player got sniped was no where near the position of where Echo first started to watch the wall and prep his shot.)

00:08:26 - An enemy engineer is running across the bridge. His crosshairs happens to follow up the left side with the engineer and happens to get a headshot in the split second of exposure. (Prefire)

00:09:40 - When the top left sniper is about to peek he re-adjust his aim perfectly prior to how he had it set. (Prefire)

00:10:50 - When Echo is behind the sheild on the left side of his battlements, he times his shot perfectly when he has LoS for that split second as if he knew where i'd be in that point in time. (Prefire)

00:15:05 - Echo peeks behind his wall on the right side of his battlements, he times his shot perfectly again with a split second of LoS and exposure. (Prefire)

00:18:30 - Sets up for another "coincidental" peek shot.

00:20:44 - When he watches the upper left, he moves his crosshairs a bit and crouches but for some reason his sniper dot is higher than his crosshair. About an inch or so. The dot was way above the players head while his crosshairs were way below. Not sure what this means. Just pointing out another odd event.

Like i said; This outline was made to be brief just to point out some specific moments throughout the whole demo and also to show what should be looked for on between the enemy and Echo. If the demo is watched with the console commands Razor has provided, its pretty obvious to see whats going on. But if more moments in the demo need to be noted for those who cant spot them then i will do so. I honestly dont believe anyone will have a problem. PS - Its necessary to use the console commands in order to see the enemy's through the wall.

If needed, there are programs that can be used to see what he's running. I will not mention them in this point in time. Im sure if he has nothing to hide it wouldnt be an issue.

Btw, No one should comment on the subject to support Echo or myself unless you have watched the demo with the console commands.

[Squirrel 1]

i had a little chat today with razor and this is what was said.. and i honestly think razor just has a grudge

Razor: Did you bother to watch the demo on my ban request on Echo?

Squirrel: Yep i did

Razor: No offense, but you're either bad at catching hackers, or you've never seen wallers before.

Razor: Clearly, he is walling in the demo, he lines up for a shot before the player has a chance to peek.

Squirrel: i use to make hacks u dip shit

Squirrel: i almost got sued so i stop

Razor: Then you shouldn't be posting ignorance in the thread.

Razor: Sued? By who? Valve?

Squirrel: its not igonrace

Squirrel: no

Razor: I doubt this, please don't act stupid.

Squirrel: don't worry about it

Squirrel: im not acting stupid

Squirrel: just leave echo alone

Razor: You don't make hacks, never have, and never will.

Razor: Echo is a cheater.

Razor: I won't leave him alone until hes been banned from the server.

Razor: If you made hacks, you would notice his walls.

Razor: Which you clearly didn't turn on the settings I posted, or you could see him easily lining up prefires.

Squirrel: i did though

Now also i watched the Demo with the settings requested.. and if he had chams.. the spys u will see pass by on blue team were not shot at all... if he really had chams he would kill those spys... also the shots above the head or what not...will look different on our screen then it does his. I seriously dont see anything fishy here at all.. i just think its because someone kept getting killed and decied to try to get him banned. I use to make Cross Fire Cham Hacks.... and i also know he doesn't prefire either... if u look at the video u would see echo spoting down on that spot of the snipers because there trying to creep out.. so u can kinda predict where the head is going to be. Echo is a really good sniper and i know it.. so he shouldn't get banned for anything.

[Razor1491 0]

If you watch the demo and turn on the settings like I have posted, Then you can notice he does line up multiple shots. Echo, you feel the need to defend yourself? From what, If you are banned it's because the admin believes you were cheating and or had an unfair advantage over other players. I never claimed I was a good sniper, so lets leave skill out of the discussion.

For the other users posting, no offense, but please do not post if you feel echo has not done anything wrong, This isn't a discussion with the community, It's a discussion among Lotus administrators to ban a cheater. I understand echo has been playing in 2 Fort for a long period of time, Did anyone besides me or Merk ever spectate him? No, because he is convincing when you are always on the same team (Squirrel.) Once you snipe against him and get fustrated at the fact that you can't even be near the door or he knows you're there, then you would understand where Merk and Myself are coming from.

Razor

[Squirrel 1]

its a forum, everyone has every right to put a statement about what they believe in. U got no full proof of him chaming and as long as he has played TF2 his chams would of been detected,banned, and he wouldn't of been seen no more. Now That is a fact

[Razor1491 0]

its a forum, everyone has every right to put a statement about what they believe in. U got no full proof of him chaming and as long as he has played TF2 his chams would of been detected,banned, and he wouldn't of been seen no more. Now That is a fact

What makes you think they would have been detected? You among many hack creators know, Valve cannot catch everyone, and he could be a hack creator like you, And he might be really good at it, and he might know tricks that you don't, there is always a way around something. So again, please don't post ignorance if you won't follow my request of keeping it between the lotus administrators.

Razor

[Psychoticism 0]

/sigh Razor.

1. We can post here to help defend a ban just the same as you can post here to provide information for a ban.

2. Re-upload your video for it has run out of downloads.

3. I hate echo but he isn't a hacker.

Yes he has a fast draw and yes sometimes he makes impossible shots. All snipers make impossible shots man, that's were game lag comes into effect, no settings you tell us to put up will fix the lag between his movements and your computer picking them up. Also, i just very recently sniped against echo and not once did i think he was cheating, as a matter of fact i was blowing his head off quite a bit. He is a strafe sniper like me, our shots look impossible but really it just takes some getting use to. After a while of not relying on body shots to kill people you get very good at immediately knowing where peoples heads are going to be. Hell ill fire before i even look sometimes. Provide some solid proof, not some shitty video. Echo is a griefer, a dick, and he thinks hes the best damn player to ever grace the lotus servers but he isn't a hacker. Stop acting like a 10-year-old now and when he starts owning you do the right thing and rage quit.

[Squirrel 1]

valve makes millions of dollars a day.. i think they can afford a good enough team to patch hacks. Once again if he would of been hacking he wouldn't be on the servers no more.

[Razor1491 0]

/sigh Razor.

1. We can post here to help defend a ban just the same as you can post here to provide information for a ban.

2. Re-upload your video for it has run out of downloads.

3. I hate echo but he isn't a hacker.

Yes he has a fast draw and yes sometimes he makes impossible shots. All snipers make impossible shots man, that's were game lag comes into effect, no settings you tell us to put up will fix the lag between his movements and your computer picking them up. Also, i just very recently sniped against echo and not once did i think he was cheating, as a matter of fact i was blowing his head off quite a bit. He is a strafe sniper like me, our shots look impossible but really it just takes some getting use to. After a while of not relying on body shots to kill people you get very good at immediately knowing where peoples heads are going to be. Hell ill fire before i even look sometimes. Provide some solid proof, not some shitty video. Echo is a griefer, a dick, and he thinks hes the best damn player to ever grace the lotus servers but he isn't a hacker. Stop acting like a 10-year-old now and when he starts owning you do the right thing and rage quit.

Another post from ignorance, You clearly couldn't watch the demo then. And you are saying he wasn't hacking. I'm reuploading as we speak.

Demo Download Update (other has reached max downloads.)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jvoddjh3ehn/banrequest_echo.dem

[Squirrel 1]

we all watched the demo... i seriously think razor is just after echo so he won't die anymore because echo is better then razor

[+Henry Spencer 117]

2FORT IS SRS BSNS GUISE, AMIRITE?

[IL IE T IH A lL 0]

Echo is a personal friend of mine that likes to play on 24/7 2fort with me and we both enjoy sniping and we both got really good at it, we try to get as many kills as possible, and in our effort this kid named razor decided that he didn't like being headshot all the time so he needs to get rid of echo? I just do not understand that. Razor cannot snipe to save his life so he has to get his opposition banned? Take this from me a lotus regular I have over 9000 kills and I have played alongside of echo and against him when I have been on blue he does not have a bot and has no reason to be banned. Personally I also don’t think one player should be banned for out sniping another player with a "lack of skill". Razor just wants echo banned so echo can’t get in his way and ruin his fun. If razor wants to snipe without any competition I rather him go to a different sever and complain there. Honestly this is a waste of time for everyone watching these videos and whining. Echo has no bot and if you can’t handle his skill pick a different server to play on and leave us popular lotus regulars alone. “I thrive off people that complain by the way so keep going razor, feed my powerâ€. Razor is just mad echo is 1 of the good snipers that can get him when he pops out with a full charge. DO NOT listen to what razor has to say, he has no experience in the matter having just over 300 kills in the game. He is just trying to get he competition banned. – Lethal

[Razor1491 0]

Lethal, Do you remember who was killing you tonight? I'm tired of having skill brought into this discussion. I have over 650 kills on the 2 Fort server, I recommend you stop trying to put me down, You didn't bother to watch the demo, And are going off the fact that he is your FRIEND. Out of my 93 kills before you left the server the first time, at least 50 of them were you, if you do want to bring skill into this, You can't snipe, you are Echo's slave, everything revolves around echo to you, the sun doesn't shine until echo wakes up.

Echo has had many friends harass me over steam about the issue, and he has had many come on the forums who are friends thinking just because hes my friend means he won't cheat. Which is complete and total bullshit, if you watch the demo you will notice what Merk and Myself and about 3-4 others have noticed/beginning to notice.

Back on the skill topic, out of 5 times I kill you how many did you kill me? once, none? If you want to continue having friends post Echo and putting people down to make yourself look so high and mighty, I recommend you get players that are well known for being chill in the server and not like you and lethal, and can play, because the ones you've had posting lately don't even deserve to be on steam.

Squirrel (This was taken too far on my part, so i removed it.)

If you would like to get technical about the subject, Once all this has happened, Merk has been votebanned by somewhat regulars.

Why would Merk be the one getting banned? Hes one of the only to ever say anything to Echo, everyone else just ignores him because he does nothing but put people down in the server and/or act all egotistical when he is in the server.

Echo, let me ask you a personal question, remember about two days ago, there was a guy in the 2Fort server on your team being very communicative and letting all of you know what was going on, You and 2-3 others votebanned him (attempted to) for having an annoying voice.. Why didn't you just player mute him.

There has been countless occasions when I believe you should have been temporarily banned from the server, you honestly need to grow up, and stop bringing more people into this then need be. Like I said, the final decision is up to the admin, no matter how many friends you bring in, no matter how much the rank, if you were hacking, you get banned, otherwise leave it on the forums, don't cause trouble in the server just because you want your ego sky high.

Razor

Echo has no bot and if you can’t handle his skill pick a different server to play on and leave us popular lotus regulars alone.

Who claimed he had a bot? Clearly you aren't reading this thread either.

First Post:

I'm not sure if he is aimbotting also, but he is clearly walling, If you look at some of his headshots, they clearly are way above the player and inch or so, or they aren't on the player at all.

Not sure! Clearly, I never accused him of having a bot, Nor did anyone else I believe, Merk and Myself said there is clearly something up with the way he follows through walls and prefires, leading us to the conclusion of walling.

[IL IE T IH A lL 0]

why dont you just stop complaining, get the fuck out of lotus' servers leave us alone, and learn to snipe, and count, i dominate you kid. Dont let this dumbass get his golry talk in on the forums he sucks ass in game and, unlike u i can count, hmmm 1 headshot out of ur 50 kills in what 3 hours of playing time.... ur amazing. just get the fuck off the server ur causing way more drama then there needs to be. I had fun on this server till this debbie downer starting accusing people of botting. So razor why dont you drop it, and the the fuck out of the server u whining ass bitch. ccyyaaaa

[echo 0]

More stupid shit. Time to pick everything you've said apart again, because a vast majority of it is wrong.

-"Echo has had many friends harass me over steam about the issue, and he has had many come on the forums who are friends thinking just because hes my friend means he won't cheat. Which is complete and total bullshit, if you watch the demo you will notice what Merk and Myself and about 3-4 others have noticed/beginning to notice. " I have asked no one to "harass" you, anybody who has said ANYTHING to you has been of their own free will. I didn't even KNOW about this topic until Squirrel sent it to me himself, then said he thought it was stupid. The word spread on it's own, I haven't asked anybody to do anything for me. EDIT: Sorry for another edit- I was tired when I originally posted this... People who have come here defending me have ALL watched the demo, I've gone through the hassle of asking them instead of just assuming they haven't because they disagree with what you say Razor, unlike yourself. They don't think I don't cheat just because they're my friends... They don't think I cheat because I don't fucking cheat.

-"Why would Merk be the one getting banned? Hes one of the only to ever say anything to Echo, everyone else just ignores him because he does nothing but put people down in the server and/or act all egotistical when he is in the server." That was just recently today, and what does that have anything to do with me? I didn't voteban him, I didn't tell anybody to voteban him, I didn't even care about the voteban because only those 2 idiots voted on it so it never even started. More ignorance from you. EDIT: In fact I don't even KNOW the people who were votebanning Merk, and I do not support that because even though Merk accuses me of hacking I have no grudge against him and he's a fairly nice guy who I've talked to a couple of times on the server. Why he's attacking me now I don't know. Act all egotistical and put people down? I put the occasional asshole in place or correct a noob, maybe even argue with a stupid griefer, I have an ego, but you make it seem like I give nobody a chance and think I'm better than everyone (sorry Aminous, you're wrong too). There's plenty of people better than me, I recognize that and I'll admit that. I have friends, so clearly my ego isn't as bad as you make it out to be or I'd be a loner who probably would of been votebanned repeatedly from the server a long time ago. You can't ban someone because they don't act the way you would like them to, so quit trying to use that as dirt like it'll help your argument. You make yourself look more and more like a fool with every post you make.

-"Echo, let me ask you a personal question, remember about two days ago, there was a guy in the 2Fort server on your team being very communicative and letting all of you know what was going on, You and 2-3 others votebanned him (attempted to) for having an annoying voice.. Why didn't you just player mute him." First of all, again, nothing to do with your "hacking" accusation. You're just trying to get all the dirt you can, even if they aren't even true facts. I vaguely even remember what you're talking about because we weren't seriously trying to ban him, we were just giving him a little hell because everyone thought he was annoying (on the TEAM). And FYI you don't ask "personal questions" on a post in a public forum

-"There has been countless occasions when I believe you should have been temporarily banned from the server, you honestly need to grow up, and stop bringing more people into this then need be. Like I said, the final decision is up to the admin, no matter how many friends you bring in, no matter how much the rank, if you were hacking, you get banned, otherwise leave it on the forums, don't cause trouble in the server just because you want your ego sky high." I've done nothing on the server to bring regulars into it, I have a circle of friends on steam who communicate with each other on their OWN terms by their OWN choice using their OWN free will. I need to grow up? Really now, just look who's talking. If you think I should have been temporarily banned from the server, you take that up with me and voteban me if you want, I couldn't care less. And I don't hack, which I'm saying pretty much as a sidenote because at the moment all your argument is revolving around other stupid shit completely unrelated to me supposedly hacking, and what if I don't get banned Razor? Are you just going to endlessly request bans because you think the way that I snipe uses hacks? Because it doesn't, so it's not going to change, sorry about your luck. If I get banned, I'm not going to be happy because I enjoy the lotus server very much, and I don't do anything in the field of hacking or giving myself an artificial advantage over players to deserve to be banned, and will probably plead my case in a chance at being un-banned if it comes to that. If not, then you're going to need to realize your immaturity, ignorance, and overall stupidity and just grow up and quit making your lame accusations.

-"Who claimed he had a bot? Clearly you aren't reading this thread either." ....... Oh my god. Quote, unquote, "I'm not sure if he is aimbotting also, but he is clearly walling, If you look at some of his headshots, they clearly are way above the player and inch or so, or they aren't on the player at all." You are indirectly stating that you think I may possibly be aimbotting as well as commenting on how adamant you are that I wallhack (which I don't, sorry to burst your bubble).

As for your comments trashing lethal:

-"Lethal, Do you remember who was killing you tonight? I'm tired of having skill brought into this discussion. I have over 650 kills on the 2 Fort server, I recommend you stop trying to put me down, You didn't bother to watch the demo, And are going off the fact that he is your FRIEND. Out of my 93 kills before you left the server the first time, at least 50 of them were you, if you do want to bring skill into this, You can't snipe, you are Echo's slave, everything revolves around echo to you, the sun doesn't shine until echo wakes up." You're tired of having skill in the discussion, and then you proceed to show how much more "superior" you are to him. He **did** watch the demo actually, same thing with all my friends who are choosing to stick up for me. He's going off the fact he's my FRIEND because he knows me PERSONALLY and knows I wouldn't do something so lame as to hack. 93 kills, 50 were him? You'd be lucky if you had a dozen on him, sorry to bring skill back into this. Lethal is a better sniper than you could ever be, my slave? The whole rest of the sentence after you say "you are Echo's slave," is retarded. Me and lethal have our separate opinions on many things, we argue, he's my friend though and because he chose to stick up for me because YOU'RE WRONG that makes him "my slave"? And you're telling me to grow up...

-"Lethal (Echo's slave, follows echo, believes echo does no wrong and can't do no wrong. Speaks from ignorance.)" Speaks from ignorance? He has more experience at sniping than you ever will, and I've even sniped against him, plus he's watched your almighty demo, so I'm not sure how he's ignorant in any way shape or form on the matter. He has just as much if not more insight on this topic than you do. The stupid shit in the rest of the sentence, like I said before, just immature and wrong.

As for bashing Squirrel (another un-related attempt at discrediting anybody who thinks you're wrong):

-"Squirrel (Uses SourceOP because echo says he "Has a life, yet he makes hacks and has 100% on TF2.)" He "uses sourceOP because echo says "He has a life, yet he makes hacks and has 100% on TF2.)"? You can't add things to my sentences and then quote them like they're precisely what I said, in fact you shouldn't be quoting anything unless it's word for word. Yes, I said Squirrel has a life because like the vast majority of people in this world, HE HAS A LIFE. I never said he makes hacks, the only person who has said that Squirrel USED to make hacks was Squirrel himself, and he only mentioned this because he's telling you he has knowledge on, and would recognize, wallhacks, chams, aimbots, and whatever else you're trying to falsely accuse me of using. I never said he has 100% on TF2, which I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. I'm guessing you're talking about achievements? He told me that he's gotten all of his achievements, and through actually playing. Which really isn't hard if you actually work towards getting the achievements and set aside actually playing... He uses SourceOP... and? Right, that went nowhere. Good try though (not really).

I think that's all. Please tell me if I missed something in your post that was stupid and wrong that I should correct.

~echo

[IL IE T IH A lL 0]

alright razor its been long enough, its time to come out and say it. This was all a joke. NO? wont say it. Cuz thats what this is turning out to be if u hadn't noticed. Like i said Razor is making a big deal out of nothing. There is no proof of shit that i ever saw, but i will say in that vid, i did see 1 thing that was kind of sketch. The fact that you made it in the first place.... cccyyaaaaa

[Squirrel 1]

What the hell does me using a fake idler server have to do with echo? you trying to get me banned to?

[Razor1491 0]

I'm done arguing with you lethal, you don't deserve my time, and I don't know why I have been wasting it on you. You keep bringing up the skill issue, and putting others and myself down, You're the one who needs to grow up, Your grammar is terrible and you keep posting on a subject you haven't even looked into.

You HAVEN'T even watched the demo, you are speaking out of the fact that Echo is your FRIEND and in your opinion he can do no wrong. Until you realize this subject has nothing to do with the skill factor of me and you, I'm just going to keep calling you ignorant and asking you to stop posting until you have actually watched the demo.

Razor

Squirrel, You're the one who made all this spread like wildfire, Merk,Echo, and myself could have discussed it here, and then an admin could have made a decision, But since you told damn near everyone Echo knows on the server that is even close to being friends with him, this has turned into a complete riot of stuff you have no idea on, If you used to make hacks, why did you accuse Echo more than a week or so ago of being bullshit in the server, then suddenly, you're best friends when a subject about him cheating is brought up.

You don't deserve to play TF2 because everyday for more than 5-6 hours you are sitting in an Idle server waiting to get something at random that you could play and get too, Technically, that's unfair in my opinion, have you looked at SourceOP's website? Read up on it? Why do you think it connects to a NON-VAC server, Clearly so you can't get banned.

[Squirrel 1]

Razor me going to the idle server has nothing to do with the lotus server. I don't know why u bring that up when i already earned all the achivements by myself.Another thing is that we also all watched the demo with the settings you requested and i still don't see anything fishy.