The One Server Lotus Is Missing

[DrkEagle 15]

But playing terrible official maps like Steel and Junction doesn't? Please. Where are you pulling your statistics from?

I never claimed I was "pulling statistics",

see:

I've noticed when people are playing even on a Lotus server that's been maxed out at 32 people for a few hours, if you throw a custom in there, on a server that people are expecting to be playing regular maps only, a custom will kill the server most (not all) of the time.

which is why I also said:

I've noticed when people are playing even on a Lotus server that's been maxed out at 32 people for a few hours, if you throw a custom in there, on a server that people are expecting to be playing regular maps only, a custom will kill the server most most (not all) of the time.

nor did I defend crappy maps like Junction. But unfortunately Valve took those original customs and put their spin on them and made them official. So at one point, they were customs, but that doesn't justify them as a good map either.

Anyways, I think a strictly custom map server should be re-tested again.

[Spartan_0214 18]

I've noticed when people are playing even on a Lotus server that's been maxed out at 32 people for a few hours, if you throw a custom in there, on a server that people are expecting to be playing regular maps only, a custom will kill the server most (not all) of the time.

Or a donator who has half a brain will votemap away from that crap.

[DrkEagle 15]

Or a donator who has half a brain will votemap away from that crap.

But you have to wait 10 minutes to issue a vote, members? By then... it's usually too late.

[guggalicious 0]

I never claimed I was "pulling statistics",

see:

which is why I also said:

nor did I defend crappy maps like Junction. But unfortunately Valve took those original customs and put their spin on them and made them official. So at one point, they were customs, but that doesn't justify them as a good map either.

Anyways, I think a strictly custom map server should be re-tested again.

I have yet to play on a custom map on any of the Lotus Servers. Isn't the map database shared by all servers? (Less the 24/7 dustbowl/2fort/goldrush servers) Because if so, I've been told by donators on East#4 that there isn't any. But maybe they just didn't know.

People generally RTV out of every game anyways. If they get in a game and agree to not liking the map that is being played, what prevents them from typing in rtv or letting a donator work his magic? Custom maps aren't even in the normal rotations so it would be impossible for one to be played unless it was forced somehow by someone.

[Oww My Nose 19]

Custom maps aren't even in the normal rotations so it would be impossible for one to be played unless it was forced somehow by someone.

i'm trying to decide if you're a troll or just a retard...

Edited February 15, 2010 by Oww My Nose

[guggalicious 0]

Until you have something relevant to say, that goes both ways.

I've noticed when people are playing even on a Lotus server that's been maxed out at 32 people for a few hours, if you throw a custom in there, on a server that people are expecting to be playing regular maps only, a custom will kill the server most most (not all) of the time.

My point being, you do not know how the Lotus community will react. I know quite a few that would happily replace CP-Junction with say, CP-Follower. The fact that a map is "official" or not is irrelevant if it detracts from the game's enjoyment.

edit:

i'm trying to decide if you're a troll or just a retard...

A ninja edit which still doesn't explain anything, eh?

-There are no custom maps on the Lotus server's DB and hence none appear in map rotations.

-Members with donation powers upon initiating a map vote have a drop-down list of the 30 or so maps available, which are -all- official.

-It hence is not currently possible to actually vote for a custom map.

-"I've noticed when people are playing even on a Lotus server that's been maxed out at 32 people for a few hours, if you throw a custom in there [...]" is not a situation that could've happened from what I understand, unless he was talking about another server, in which case its irrelevant as it does not pertain to Lotus' userbase.

I'd happily go and ask the community in-game about what they actually think instead of theorycrafting upon obscure data.

[Paul Bunyan 13]

You talk funny...

Need a breath mint?

[Spartan_0214 18]

A ninja edit which still doesn't explain anything, eh?

-There are no custom maps on the Lotus server's DB and hence none appear in map rotations.

-Members with donation powers upon initiating a map vote have a drop-down list of the 30 or so maps available, which are -all- official.

-It hence is not currently possible to actually vote for a custom map.

-"I've noticed when people are playing even on a Lotus server that's been maxed out at 32 people for a few hours, if you throw a custom in there [...]" is not a situation that could've happened from what I understand, unless he was talking about another server, in which case its irrelevant as it does not pertain to Lotus' userbase.

Almost all of the new maps that have been released in the past year have been community maps. I think this is what Nose means.

[guggalicious 0]

Seeing as DrkEagle referred to said community maps as custom maps, I did the same. I don't see how arguing semantics is relevant at this point if you perfectly understand what I mean.

[Brokkoly 11]

Have you seen what these forums are like, i think now it's just arguing for the sake of arguing, it happens once the topics get to about 3 pages

[guggalicious 0]

Like I said, I only proposed maps that are actually used competitively as a testament of their quality. Nothing more. I don't really expect Lotus servers to become 2f2f overnight

[Spartan_0214 18]

Wait. The people who have no lives and are paid to play TF2 have selected these maps? Surely, they are the epitome of great maps. Surely, this will fit most people's gameplay styles. Surely this is the final test to determine whether or not a map becomes a stock map.

>.>

Sorry. not really impressed by the TF2 competitive players.

[Oww My Nose 19]

Almost all of the new maps that have been released in the past year have been community maps. I think this is what Nose means.

<3 spartan. I'll say that's what i was thinking. Replace past year with maps released in updates after TF2 was made. The only valve maps released in updates (that i can recall right now) are goldrush, badwater, pipeline, and... was that crappy halloween map valve?

There are community made maps on our servers, just because valve picked them as 'stock' doesn't mean they weren't community.

Also, this is about getting custom maps in the server rotation, if you go by 'what valve released is stock' then of course there are no custom maps in any of our stock servers. If we had custom maps, then this topic wouldn't be here

[Dashuu 11]

Valve currently takes almost all of it's map ideas from community maps. They modify them pretty heavily sometimes though. Even payload was a community mod that they picked up on and modified. I think that's one of the things I like most about Valve though. You really get the impression that the people who work on TF2 (and L4D1/2) have learned what an amazing resource the player community can be. Maybe it's just an effect of shrinking dev teams though.

[guggalicious 0]

Wait. The people who have no lives and are paid to play TF2 have selected these maps? Surely, they are the epitome of great maps. Surely, this will fit most people's gameplay styles. Surely this is the final test to determine whether or not a map becomes a stock map.

>.>

Sorry. not really impressed by the TF2 competitive players.

Or you could simply try the maps I suggested and see for yourself instead of bringing up people's priorities as if it were relevant. Fact: there exist custom maps out there that are far better than the current community maps. I brought up the competitive standard to pick the maps because Brokkoly expressed concerns about the way the server might turn if it goes over the top with customs. If you dislike said standard, then speak up and tell us what exactly makes a map fine, playable and enjoyable according to you. Pointless rambling is getting us nowhere.

<3 spartan. I'll say that's what i was thinking. Replace past year with maps released in updates after TF2 was made. The only valve maps released in updates (that i can recall right now) are goldrush, badwater, pipeline, and... was that crappy halloween map valve?

There are community made maps on our servers, just because valve picked them as 'stock' doesn't mean they weren't community.

Also, this is about getting custom maps in the server rotation, if you go by 'what valve released is stock' then of course there are no custom maps in any of our stock servers. If we had custom maps, then this topic wouldn't be here

But it is here. Because we don't have custom maps beyond the community maps. When did I say (e.g.) Junction wasn't a community map? I still don't even know why you bothered calling me out to argue such trivialities.

There exist far better maps than what the current stock pool offers. That is all that I'm saying, hence why I am for the addition of custom maps.

[Brokkoly 11]

I brought up the competitive standard to pick the maps because Brokkoly expressed concerns about the way the server might turn if it goes over the top with customs.

Slanderous wretch, i meant no such thing, i was talking more about how the forum posts actually seem to turn into arguments over most topics, but custom maps could bring more arguments.

[guggalicious 0]

My bad. I don't even remember who I was replying to then xD

[Spartan_0214 18]

I am against community maps in general. One of the selling points of TF2 was that instead of making a lot of good maps, Valve spent the time to make a few great maps. I have not seen such quality from any community maps, especially the ones that Valve picked to be Stock Maps, which supposedly were some of the best ones out there. I was countering your point about maps being worth crap, by the way, which seemed to be one of your few reasons to have community maps on the server. Calm down.

[guggalicious 0]

I am against community maps in general. One of the selling points of TF2 was that instead of making a lot of good maps, Valve spent the time to make a few great maps. I have not seen such quality from any community maps, especially the ones that Valve picked to be Stock Maps, which supposedly were some of the best ones out there. I was countering your point about maps being worth crap, by the way, which seemed to be one of your few reasons to have community maps on the server. Calm down.

I am calm. You people have just spent the last page or so nitpicking instead of actually discussing the point at hand.

And I already stated that I hated some of the community maps like Junction and Hoodoo, which feature in the rotation but promote nothing less than spam and class imbalances. I thus proposed the additions of custom maps who could very well have made it as community maps but failed to due to Valve's poor lack of judgement. Stock doesn't always = good.

[cid32 0]

Wait. The people who have no lives and are paid to play TF2 have selected these maps? Surely, they are the epitome of great maps. Surely, this will fit most people's gameplay styles. Surely this is the final test to determine whether or not a map becomes a stock map.

>.>

Sorry. not really impressed by the TF2 competitive players.

so who would you propose decide which maps are good and which are shit. i'd much rather have a comp player who actually knows a lot about the game decide, rather than some turd that only plays pyro on instant respawn 2fort servers or something.

[Oww My Nose 19]

so who would you propose decide which maps are good and which are shit. i'd much rather have a comp player who actually knows a lot about the game decide, rather than some turd that only plays pyro on instant respawn 2fort servers or something.

Or we could just decide if we're having fun playing the map. Just because a competitive player says a map is good doesn't mean it will be good in a full 32 player server.

Keep in mind competitive games are 6v6, so smaller maps are more favorable to them. A small map in a 32 playe server is a terrible thing

[Spartan_0214 18]

Or we could just decide if we're having fun playing the map. Just because a competitive player says a map is good doesn't mean it will be good in a full 32 player server.

Keep in mind competitive games are 6v6, so smaller maps are more favorable to them. A small map in a 32 playe server is a terrible thing

Key point: Junction.

And I am hardly nitpicking. Those are the reasons I don't like the community maps. They're good enough reasons not to like them.

If you wanna play Community maps, go ahead, but until someone offers to really go ahead, dl some maps, talk to Mana, donate some money for the server, and put the server up, this isn't going to happen.

[guggalicious 0]

Or we could just decide if we're having fun playing the map. Just because a competitive player says a map is good doesn't mean it will be good in a full 32 player server.

Keep in mind competitive games are 6v6, so smaller maps are more favorable to them. A small map in a 32 playe server is a terrible thing

Shows how much you know. What small map do you know of that is actually played competitively? They play Granary, Gravel Pit, Badlands, Turbine, etc, just like us. It's not like they build maps specifically for a 6v6 setting. CP-Follower, CP-Freight, CP-Resonance are all big enough maps, comparable to what we currently play.

[cid32 0]

Or we could just decide if we're having fun playing the map. Just because a competitive player says a map is good doesn't mean it will be good in a full 32 player server.

Keep in mind competitive games are 6v6, so smaller maps are more favorable to them. A small map in a 32 playe server is a terrible thing

everything valve makes is balanced for 24 players. the fact that the maps are fun with 32 people has more to do with chance than design.

also unless you consider granary, freight, turbine, badlands etc small, comp doesn't play on small maps.

[Captain Planet 28]

I love steel. Why someone said they don't like it is beyond me, the map is a hell of a lot of fun to play, because there are so many side-routes to get to where you want to go (except A, lol, but even then, you can rush E if that is really a problem).

To actual arguments. Some of the official maps that I love happened to be community maps. I remember back in the stack 1 era it was normal for the rotation to go through turbine/badwater/steel, all community created maps. Sure, goldrush and dustbowl got thrown in there every once in a while, but the turbine/badwater/steel were the 3 core maps. Mainly because they were made with the thought that a server might have 32 people, so there are a lot more side-routes available. Dustbowl has one of the biggest choke points ever created, ever, and Goldrush is pretty high up there, with both of these maps able to be controlled with random spam at certain points.

To the original argument. While having some custom maps in the rotation might be nice, people do still play on our stocks server because we have all the maps on the rotation. I really don't know if a custom map server is needed. If a custom map is deemed good enough for the majority of the community to like it, then it'll get made official in due time (Valve time, lol). Granted I don't play a lot right now due to lost of ability to play (no computer can run it in a playable fashion), when I do come back, I probably would not play on the custom server, mainly because learning new maps like that becomes frustrating (see: Swiftwater. Fun map but the amount of side-routes baffles the mind, and I get lost a lot).

Idk, just my 2-cents on the matter.