I Hate This Server's Autobalance System.

[Dustbowl Ned 0]

This server was one of my favorites for quite a while. I would get on TF2 and play a little dustbowl or something, and nothing on the server really bothered me, which I like.

However.

Apparently, Lotusclan has decided to put some sort of mod on the TF2 servers I go to which FORCES you to stay on the team you are autobalanced to for a number of rounds. Though this may help to prevent teamstacking, it's a pain in the ass. For example, your team is on a winning streak, and you're having a lot of fun. And then, exactly two people decide they have something better to do, and you're stuck on the losing team for like, three and a half rounds before you give up and just quit the game.

I think a much better system would be, if you absolutely must keep a player on the team he (or she) is autobalanced to for a certain amount of time, it should be something like five minutes, or at the most until the end of that round. It's really unnecessary to keep the person on that team for the amount of time it does. Or, maybe the autobalance wouldn't trigger if the other team is only down two players. Two players =/= unbalanced. Now, if it's like, a 4 or 5 player difference, then teams need balancing.

If you've taken the time to read this, thanks, and please, no "deal wit it el oh el" responses.

[Retsam 1]

I can understand how its frustrating. They probably have a custom team balance plugin which they edited to go for rounds instead of time? Normally, it does go by time.. Typically other plugins force a player stuck to a team for around 5 minutes or so..

On our(mcg) servers, we decided to not use a plugin just cause, to a degree, its unnecessary and annoying to be team balanced when people were about to join, or theres a bunch sitting in spec, etc.

I have definitely noticed some faulty coding logic in some team balancer plugins that dont account for some situations... I personally dislike being forced onto a team that I may have helped my team dominate then have to play on the losing side.

Team balancers are always one of those things that can work for or against a server. Most of the time, a team will naturally balance itself out if its just given a little more time and you can avoid forcing players onto a team and being stuck there.

[Mana 3,867]

Apparently, Lotusclan has decided to put some sort of mod on the TF2 servers I go to which FORCES you to stay on the team you are autobalanced to for a number of rounds. Though this may help to prevent teamstacking, it's a pain in the ass. For example, your team is on a winning streak, and you're having a lot of fun. And then, exactly two people decide they have something better to do, and you're stuck on the losing team for like, three and a half rounds before you give up and just quit the game.

There's been a general improvement since this was implemented. So don't expect me to make drastic changes. But I will say that it will still get tweaked.

I think it's working pretty well. Especially when people thank me for it while saying that they dislike it .

I can understand how its frustrating. They probably have a custom team balance plugin which they edited to go for rounds instead of time? Normally, it does go by time.. Typically other plugins force a player stuck to a team for around 5 minutes or so..

We're using Valve's autobalance system, it's really the best. And as a bonus, if Valve ever updates it, we'll get the update with just updating the server. Obviously we have it hooked to ignore admins/donors.

The enforcer is separate.

[Retsam 1]

Wait, you use valves auto-balance? How can you use valves auto-balance and still enforce balances and use immunities? You do some type of hook of the balance event then flag the player or something?

Valves auto-balance is ok, its just kinda flawed since they dont really think through some things that some plugins take care of(typical of valve). Id be interested to know how you use valves auto-balance and still able to do forces and immunities. Maybe theres cvars for this now that I havnt noticed?

[Mana 3,867]

Wait, you use valves auto-balance? How can you use valves auto-balance and still enforce balances and use immunities? You do some type of hook of the balance event then flag the player or something?

No, events are just messages (post-fact). They don't control anything really. Also, hooking the autobalance event and putting the player back on the team he should be on won't work, will just screw things up. Unless you add an unacceptable delay.

There's at least 2 ways of doing it. One is by changing the balance score (certain classes start with different scores, also based on performance) and I don't remember what it is exactly that we do now (been using this method for more than a year now).

Oh and a third way is simply to return the player as living to the autobalance system .

[Retsam 1]

Ok. I didnt mean it was really a "hook", I just meant a method that links to the event happening. It sounds like you figured out a way to tap into the auto-balance system which I havnt seen(or have and just didnt think about it, I look at a lot of stuff and hard to remember everything). Id be interested and seeing how you did that but.. anyways.

[Mana 3,867]

Ok. I didnt mean it was necessarily a "hook", I just meant a method that links to the event happening. It sounds like you figured out a way to tap into the auto-balance system which I havnt seen(or have and just didnt think about it, I look at a lot of stuff and hard to remember everything). Id be interested and seeing how you did that but.. anyways.

000000000038f200 W CBaseEntity::IsAlive
0000000000b884e0 T CTFPlayer::CalculateTeamBalanceScore
0000000000a86670 T CTeamplayRoundBasedRules::BalanceTeams
0000000000a81370 T CTeamplayRoundBasedRules::AreTeamsUnbalanced
0000000000a814c0 T CTeamplayRoundBasedRules::ShouldBalanceTeams
0000000000a81500 T CTeamplayRoundBasedRules::WouldChangeUnbalanceTeams

Have fun.

[Dustbowl Ned 0]

There's also another thing: If you're autobalanced to spectator while you're AFK, it doesn't let you switch back to a team. Fix this, or people will start to just go to different servers.

[Oww My Nose 19]

enable developers console

press the ` key

type in 'jointeam red' (without quotes)

choose your team, or just stay on red if you can go on red

it's really quite simple

[Mana 3,867]

enable developers console

press the ` key

type in 'jointeam red' (without quotes)

choose your team, or just stay on red if you can go on red

it's really quite simple

What are you talking about?

[Oww My Nose 19]

sometimes when i unsuccessfully try to join a team, i just get stuck in spec, and going into the console and typing jointeam red seems to give me an option of what team i want to join

[Retsam 1]

Thats not what we were discussing heh.

[Mana 3,867]

sometimes when i unsuccessfully try to join a team, i just get stuck in spec, and going into the console and typing jointeam red seems to give me an option of what team i want to join

This is not what this thread is about...

[Oww My Nose 19]

I have a problem where I get stuck in spec and can't join a team... who cares how it happens.

What I said fixes my problem of being stuck in spec, there's a chance it'll work here too.

[Melissia 7]

Yes yes yes, we get it, whatever shutup. Off topic.

[Mana 3,867]

I have a problem where I get stuck in spec and can't join a team...

Hahaha, do you do this often? Randomly ramble about something completely unrelated while people are discussing something?

[Dashuu 11]

This may have been suggested before, but you might be able to resolve many of the stacking issues with allchat. I mean, I've heard again and again how the teams get stacked because friends want to play together. I think it's more that they just want to talk with one another. So maybe you could try allchat on a server. See if that particular server loses it's stacking issue. My recommendation would be stocks 3.

I know this is a little off topic, but I figured that one of the bigger reasons people are auto-balanced is because someone joined the game that donates and joined the team their friends are on. If it didn't matter what team they were on to chat it up with their buddies, maybe they wouldn't care what team they were on at all.

[FunkyFresh 68]

This may have been suggested before, but you might be able to resolve many of the stacking issues with allchat. I mean, I've heard again and again how the teams get stacked because friends want to play together. I think it's more that they just want to talk with one another. So maybe you could try allchat on a server. See if that particular server loses it's stacking issue. My recommendation would be stocks 3.

I know this is a little off topic, but I figured that one of the bigger reasons people are auto-balanced is because someone joined the game that donates and joined the team their friends are on. If it didn't matter what team they were on to chat it up with their buddies, maybe they wouldn't care what team they were on at all.

It'd sure as hell stop me from wanting to join the overflowing team, that's for sure. I'd even consider donating again for more consistent play on these servers. It'd be a loud bitchfest anytime a team lost obviously, being on lotus servers 'n all. But still. That's why there's votemute woopwoop.

[Dustbowl Ned 0]

That guy wasn't really derailing the thread. I was talking about how autobalance can stick you in spectate if you're afk too long, and won't let you leave.

[Paul Bunyan 13]

Yes yes yes, we get it, whatever shutup. Off topic.

Wow, you're pretty nice.

[Retsam 1]

In my personal opinion, I just think its unnecessary to take such steps to enforce switches. People come and go quite often, people will fix the teams naturally. If I were going to use one of the team balance plugins, id make it just enforce it for like 60 seconds, then not worry about it. I dont think you need to take that drastic of steps to enforce it. It usually just ends up with people complaining.

Suggestion for Mana:

Since I obviously havnt seen the code, I dont know, so this comment is not necessarily related to lotus servers, more of a general idea since ive looked at code from countless team balance plugins....

Ive noticed over time some flawed logic in plugins(and even more to the point, flawed from valve). This is the checking for engineers and medics. Im not sure if youre extension does it(id hope so), but most team balance plugins tend to give engineers and medics immunities to balances based on buildings made or uber percent. As an admin, I cant stand to see when balance plugins switch medics and engineers. If it were mine, id even take those checks out and just give immunities to medic and engineer classes. It shouldnt matter if engies and or medics have buildings/uber percent, just give the class immunities and be done. Medics and engineers are kind of vital to a team and shouldnt be switched, even if at that specific point in time, they didnt have any buildings made or uber percent.

Sorry, its just one thing that annoys the hell out of me when I go to some other peoples servers. You should never be switched if youre a medic or engineer. Its too bad valve is too dumb to figure this out, which is why everyone is forced to use plugins/extensions.

[Mana 3,867]

Valve's autobalance plugin rarely balances engineers. Different balance score, other classes get balance priority.

Also the main reason for enforcing the team switch is to prevent people from going into spectate and wasting slots. I'd much rather have them disconnect than waste a slot in spectate. Because the person who joins in their place won't really care which team to join.

Also, If it was just 60 secs then they would join spectate after those 60 secs (when they learned how long the enforce lasts) and wait till the team they wanted to play on is open.

Remember, they can always get autobalanced back if teams are uneven. Enforcer yields to autobalance itself.

[Brokkoly 11]

I think the new system does make people stay on rather than just go spectate, which is good, and there's usually at least one donator on to kick someone in ragespec

[Retsam 1]

Ya but, I can definitely say ive seen and have been auto-balanced on servers using the in-game auto-balance for engineers/medics. Theres nothing more retarded than having full setup/buildings made then watch the engie get switched. It does happen. Same with medics. All custom auto-balance plugins ive seen account for that.

Why does your extension not? If not, you should. Just make it a class immunity and be done. Theres plenty of other people on a team to be switched rather than taking the vital members. You know?

[Brokkoly 11]

except here's the kicker, donators get the immunity, and if there's all donators and 1 engie non-donator guess who's gonna get switched.