Game Dynamics, Pub Players N Beginners

[Ack 0]

Hello to all the fans of TF2,

I''d like to thank all the Admins and support people who make the Lotus experience possible, with all the many and varied viewpoints from all walks of life it can get bureaucratic at times and it takes away from the gaming experience. With that in mind we understand the need to keep all Lotus servers vac secured and bot free. I think building a legacy for the up and coming generation of players is necessary. When more than half of the players "Newbies" don't even know the difference if a script is being used on them or not. If you didn't demand proof in the form of a demo which is not all that easy to get I might add. But this same generation of players looks up to the integrity of Lotus to keep the gaming environment as fair as possible. I for one wouldn't make it a priority if I didn't feel it justifiable however, I may or may not have been owned by said player getting banned. The point is getting owned is part of the game and learning process, if you feel wronged because you were banned it's not because you know you did wrong; it's because you were caught. I happen to know the difference and if I suspect someone who is hacking I might make a demo of it. If you happen to be playing outside of the rules at the time I made it then you just might be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Be thankful that the admins don't take it personally and forward the info about said offenders to Valve.

Hmmm so what am I trying to say? Would you rather be someone who rules on an even playing ground or someone who finds out later that the player that they have been fighting has been hacking all along. And now you have no moral compass why not tweek your config to get an edge. To me that is selfish because it brings down the integrity of the whole team. Not just you. And by fallout it's the Lotus servers that get a bad rep.

I love being able to play TF2 on low ping servers like the ones Lotus offers. If you want to give those privileges up by scripting on their servers the ans. is simple, don't do it!

There used to be a time in the gaming community that hacks were considered not such a taboo thing, rather something funny a break in the routine of things, they had servers dedicated to playing that way.When first person shooters like Quake and Unreal Tourn. were popular.My question is this: Would you rather play on a secured or non-secured server and why?

[Oww My Nose 19]

tl;dr version please

[Paul Bunyan 13]

tl;dr version please

Hmmm so what am I trying to say? Would you rather be someone who rules on an even playing ground or someone who finds out later that the player that they have been fighting has been hacking all along. And now you have no moral compass why not tweek your config to get an edge. To me that is selfish because it brings down the integrity of the whole team. Not just you. And by fallout it's the Lotus servers that get a bad rep.

And the rest of the bottom of what he said.

My question:

What was the exact point or purpose of this thread?

[Oww My Nose 19]

And the rest of the bottom of what he said.

My question:

What was the exact point or purpose of this thread?

o thx, i didn't see tl;dr so naturally i didn't read anything

[Lemon Jelly 26]

I'm so confused by this so you want people to hack? I had a hard time reading this so....sorry if I missed your point.

[Ack 0]

I do not condone hacking, sorry if I mislead you into thinking that it is ok to take advantage of the naive nature of some of the players. All that I am trying to say is those players deserve a venue to which they can hone their skills in a fair or even environment. Do you agree or disagree with the mentality of what I am saying? I think that there could be a venue (server) that is not VAC secured and have at it, as long as everyone agrees that it is what it is. I believe that it is unfair to take advantage of said newbies, there are plenty of other ways too own than having to resort to hacks. Why not leave it legit so one can establish a baseline where playa's can interact without fear of someone hacking, not that hacking is bad givin the right set of circumstances. It's just un- necessary which only serves the player hacking. I do get annoyed at some of the newbs who grieve that everyone is hacking because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Which brings us back to what I said last post, would you rather play on a secured or non-secured venue and why? I for one think that they should be separate although evidence to the contrary has been established.

I'm so confused by this so you want people to hack? I had a hard time reading this so....sorry if I missed your point.

I was trying to start a conversation about hackers changing the dynamics of the game and how people who don't know the difference will start to think it's ok to hack. Do you agree ?

And the rest of the bottom of what he said.

My question:

What was the exact point or purpose of this thread?

[DrkEagle 15]

Dude, you give me a headache trying to sound all smart and educated, like you're giving a speech to a room full of Harvard/Yale graduates. If you wanted to start a discussion about how lame hackers are and how it might turn newer players away, either thinking hacking is okay, they actually suck that bad, or giving them fair warning they are entering a server that hacking is allowed, come out straight with it and you'll probably get more/better response from everyone.

[SatansDankWeed 2]

mesa jar jar binks!

[Victoreem the V of doom 30]

Its funny if you think about how long this probably took him to write. I bet he has a rough draft written up.

bad players get better watching good players, listening to good players, and getting owned by good players. Having them "hack" on a baby server is moronic.

[DrkEagle 15]

I remember about 10 years ago playing Diablo 2. We would go download trainers and go on the non protected servers where you could hack and use these powerful trainers where we could actually mess with OTHER players stuff on the server, not just our own. And these people would freak out and I wonder...why are you playing on open servers in the first place? We did it cause it was funny and we were bored...and we were like 13 and 14 lol.

But I think if you HALF WAY know what's going on, and AT LEAST play the game for a few hours online, even if you think you aren't that good, if someone is hacking on a server, I'm pretty sure someone else besides you is going to notice and say something, therefore, hopefully, making you, the newb, aware that someone is cheating and it's not, mostly, always like that. For someone new to a game, especially through Valve/Steam, coming into a game nowadays, thinking hacking is ok and part of a game, is an idiot. I could understand if it's the first ever video game you've ever ever ever played online....okay....maybe...MAYBE....but again, that takes me to the first part....after a hour or so, if someone is hacking, someone else WILL speak up. Unless you're playing 1v1. And coming into a brand new game, you're an idiot thinking that you WON'T be getting owned by others that have been playing it for X long, ESPECIALLY on a 24+ person server. That's 12+ other people...trying to kill you....that have been playing a lot longer than you.

[Ack 0]

I apologize for the somewhat wordy style but I first had to judge wither u could communicate on a higher than 8th grade level. If you couldn't I knew not to waste my time.

Its funny if you think about how long this probably took him to write. I bet he has a rough draft written up.

bad players get better watching good players, listening to good players, and getting owned by good players. Having them "hack" on a baby server is moronic.

The kind of hacks that I've been running into lately are sneaky one's. Like the kind that isn't readily obvious, which bring me to another point. The lame hacker still wishes to hack but they have taken the trouble to make it less obvious and your not quite sure until you observe them. Have you ever run across that type of situation? I would be interested in hearing what people say about the subject. Either hypothetical or otherwise.

Dude, you give me a headache trying to sound all smart and educated, like you're giving a speech to a room full of Harvard/Yale graduates. If you wanted to start a discussion about how lame hackers are and how it might turn newer players away, either thinking hacking is okay, they actually suck that bad, or giving them fair warning they are entering a server that hacking is allowed, come out straight with it and you'll probably get more/better response from everyone.

What sucks are those sneaky cheats, the kind that are designed to fool a veteran player, I would like to expose those types of hacks, And hopefully learn a few things along the way. I have just gotten familiar with your banning process.

I remember about 10 years ago playing Diablo 2. We would go download trainers and go on the non protected servers where you could hack and use these powerful trainers where we could actually mess with OTHER players stuff on the server, not just our own. And these people would freak out and I wonder...why are you playing on open servers in the first place? We did it cause it was funny and we were bored...and we were like 13 and 14 lol.

But I think if you HALF WAY know what's going on, and AT LEAST play the game for a few hours online, even if you think you aren't that good, if someone is hacking on a server, I'm pretty sure someone else besides you is going to notice and say something, therefore, hopefully, making you, the newb, aware that someone is cheating and it's not, mostly, always like that. For someone new to a game, especially through Valve/Steam, coming into a game nowadays, thinking hacking is ok and part of a game, is an idiot. I could understand if it's the first ever video game you've ever ever ever played online....okay....maybe...MAYBE....but again, that takes me to the first part....after a hour or so, if someone is hacking, someone else WILL speak up. Unless you're playing 1v1. And coming into a brand new game, you're an idiot thinking that you WON'T be getting owned by others that have been playing it for X long, ESPECIALLY on a 24+ person server. That's 12+ other people...trying to kill you....that have been playing a lot longer than you.

[DrkEagle 15]

I apologize for the somewhat wordy style but I first had to judge wither u could communicate on a higher than 8th grade level. If you couldn't I knew not to waste my time.

I'm in by no means making fun of you, I think you have a genuine good discussion somewhere in this mess, but if you're gonna make a hidden jab at how you write and what we can or cannot understand here, you might wanna proof yourself too.

[Krash 1,040]

I read "I"d" and i was done.

And Ack, welcome to the Lotus forums, make them easy to read and simple. Demos are good even if they dont have to do with bans.

[Ack 0]

Thank you and thx for the advise, I'll try to be more concise in the future.

I read "I"d" and i was done.

And Ack, welcome to the Lotus forums, make them easy to read and simple. Demos are good even if they dont have to do with bans.

Grammar aside I'm not trying to be sarcastic or condescending this is my first attempt at getting a discussion going. I appreciate any responses from people who have anything to contribute positive or negative. I'll let the spell check sort it out, I am interested in starting a good discussion about game flow and why it's better to keep a balanced team over a stacked one. (Mostly comprised of the same type of character.)

I'm in by no means making fun of you, I think you have a genuine good discussion somewhere in this mess, but if you're gonna make a hidden jab at how you write and what we can or cannot understand here, you might wanna proof yourself too.

[SatansDankWeed 2]

sometimes when i play tf2 i really do think my brain hacks, ik ive been playing the game for years but some times when i nail that airshot i think to myself wow how can i do that over and over again now. am i getting better, or is my brain hacking because after i smoke and play. it seems like im moving 5x faster than the average player.

am i hacking? or just have superstoned powers???

[Machine That Goes Bonk 0]

I am not trying to be mean, but as someone who does write at a very high level (*toots horn*), your writing is not there yet. You contorted your own opinion several times in your first post, which made it hard for people to understand both your own opinion on the matter as well as what exactly you were trying to accomplish with the thread. You've since come in and clarified which helps, but you're not really refining your writing at all. You're still taking too long to say a simple thing; long and wordy doesn't mean it's good writing. Also, you continue to dance around your actual point. Give examples of hacks you've seen that disguise themselves?

Awhile back my group of friends and myself were playing on Stocks 3, and there were 4 people cheating. I believe they were buddies, because they all vouched for each other, and all denied using hacks. It was pretty obvious to anyone who's played the game longer than an hour that they were cheating, yet it took three attempts to get a vote ban to pass on one of them. We weren't able to get the others banned so we just went to the Texas server. They joined somewhat later and we announced to the server that they were using hacks and to prepare to do a vote ban. The hackers promptly disconnected, and we didn't have to worry about them anymore. I did make a couple demos and I did get some fraps videos of it too, but I couldn't be bothered to do it and I think I wasn't able to get their Steam id. Meh. I probably still have the files somewhere.

I'm not certain if you're expecting anyone to come out and say, "Why yes Ack, I do enjoy hacking and there should be designated servers for doing so!" I think if you put up a server for hacks, it's just going to make it slightly more acceptable, and people are going to want to keep that bonus for other servers, especially against people who don't have them.

[Victoreem the V of doom 30]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QguWdSsI8S8

shallow and pedantic

[Ack 0]

I like your style , I never said my writing was at a high level, however my ideas like my thought process are more complex than most. Sometimes it takes me longer to get my ideas across because of the way I like to generate those ideas, I'm not here to clean up my English or take out my "Little Brown Book" so to those who expect me to cross all my T's and dot all my I's. You may be in for a disappointment. My contorted posts were my attempt to write impartially so as too appear unbiased, and let others expound on the topic, but it seems like people want me to be so blk n white and easy to understand. "Sighs" Yes I started a thread with multiple topics and generalities which it seems to have been a mistake because it only seems to confuse the readers. But if you think of my post as more of an editorial instead of a pro con sort of thing it should make more sense. In the future I will try to keep my posts more specific and linear. I hate having to defend my writing style because it distracts from the intent and nature of the communication flow. Do you think I should start a new topic?

I think I may have forgotten to mention to read some of the ban list portion of these forums, as I have gotten players banned for a specific hack and I should have informed the readers to view the demos.

When I was referring to being sneaky. I.E. sneaky sniper hackers, that's what I was referring too. Generally hackers use their scripts to gain some sort of an advantage over the other players on the server. For reasons which I can only speculate at; as I do not use them. Maybe it's the excitement of getting caught or the attention one gets from the overall experience the reasons are many and varied and not everyone plays by the same standards as everyone else. The demos I made were of people who didn't want the attention so they were surprised that they got caught. Now case and point, if you are a hacker and do not want others to know that you are doing it, what type of hack would best serve your interests. My point being is that they know they are breaking the rules but they go that step further to actually conceal their hacking. It takes some effort on their part to do this, I would also like to say that the effort involved in catching and reporting these hackers takes an equal amount of energy.

I confronted this one hacker who basically said that he didn't normally play on Lotus servers so he didn't care if he was reported or not, and not that he was hacking ...but if he was, what was I going to do about it? Clearly I felt silly and stupid and helpless all at the same time in varied amounts. I wasn't an admin, not even a donor; who was this guy? I suspect being your average player like most of us out there you either let it drop or go to another server, or actually do something about it. I chose the latter, I hope I catch the Son of a.... sometime in the future as I had no clue what to do at the time. The players who I have made demos of and gotten banned since then happened to be the result of that incident. If it had not of been for the confrontation, I would not have sought out some type of justice.

Which brings me to the point of getting Justice. If you think you have a legit gripe about a hacker, one should read the rules posted by Lotus. No amount of grieving will get the hacker banned unless you follow the procedures posted. It works somewhat as I tried to do it just to see if it works. It does somewhat for the first couple but after that the admins stop reviewing your demos for whatever reasons. Maybe if enough players got together and made an effort to clean up your favorite server it would make it a better gaming experience for everyone involved.

Back to the disguised hack, generally the greatest complaint people hate is the Aim-bot. We all know what it is and does, pushing a button without having to aim is something that should make a legit player very bored indeed. Why do it? I'll never understand but yet time and time again we see people who do. Now a snipers weapon in the right hands can be a very powerful tool, the damage it can inflict on a numerical level is basically one shot one kill. Nothing else can do that, that's why the programmers made it so that the amount of damage one can inflict with this weapon depends on the power level it's at when u decide to pull the trigger. It also is supposed to be timed and adjusted as far as how long it takes too bring the weapon up too it's full potential, the longer the sniper is allowed to charge the weapon the more damage he can inflict on his opponents. This time is also intended to make the sniper more vulnerable during this time to attack, being scoped in should have it's disadvantages as well. When you first scope in with the sniper the shot is at its lowest power which does minimal damage. Every time you unscope the power is supposed to reset back to this low level. Now this is where the hacking comes in, if you take away or change the timing of the powerup phase of the rifle you are basically breaking the rules and are guilty of hacking. Why should this matter and how does it effect game play? A sniper has to set himself up for a shot by standing still, or tracking back and forth slowly so his weapon can charge up, I don't know what the minimal damage is maybe someone out there can help fill in the blanks.The sniper excels at long range which is how the class was set up, the best way of dealing with a sniper other than being another sniper is too close the distance between you and the enemy. A sniper is most vulnerable up close where the other class's have the advantage. If you take away the time it takes to power up the gun you gain a huge advantage, which does not immediately show itself until confronted by more than one opponent. A sniper with this advantage can take down two people in rapid succession with ease, especially with body shots. An extreme case would be full power every time u pull the trigger. BAM ..BAM...BAM! You have basically turned the rifle into an automatic. Sniper rifles were not intended to be used this way hence the lower damage at the beginning. Makes it very hard to rush a player who uses this hack. If you are a sniper his rate of fire definitely gives him more opportunity to kill you than you him. I guess what this does is upset the game balance more than you realize.

I am not trying to be mean, but as someone who does write at a very high level (*toots horn*), your writing is not there yet. You contorted your own opinion several times in your first post, which made it hard for people to understand both your own opinion on the matter as well as what exactly you were trying to accomplish with the thread. You've since come in and clarified which helps, but you're not really refining your writing at all. You're still taking too long to say a simple thing; long and wordy doesn't mean it's good writing. Also, you continue to dance around your actual point. Give examples of hacks you've seen that disguise themselves?

Awhile back my group of friends and myself were playing on Stocks 3, and there were 4 people cheating. I believe they were buddies, because they all vouched for each other, and all denied using hacks. It was pretty obvious to anyone who's played the game longer than an hour that they were cheating, yet it took three attempts to get a vote ban to pass on one of them. We weren't able to get the others banned so we just went to the Texas server. They joined somewhat later and we announced to the server that they were using hacks and to prepare to do a vote ban. The hackers promptly disconnected, and we didn't have to worry about them anymore. I did make a couple demos and I did get some fraps videos of it too, but I couldn't be bothered to do it and I think I wasn't able to get their Steam id. Meh. I probably still have the files somewhere.

I'm not certain if you're expecting anyone to come out and say, "Why yes Ack, I do enjoy hacking and there should be designated servers for doing so!" I think if you put up a server for hacks, it's just going to make it slightly more acceptable, and people are going to want to keep that bonus for other servers, especially against people who don't have them.

[DrkEagle 15]

I like your style , I never said my writing was at a high level, however my ideas like my thought process are more complex than most. Sometimes it takes me longer to get my ideas across because of the way I like to generate those ideas, I'm not here to clean up my English or take out my "Little Brown Book" so to those who expect me to cross all my T's and dot all my I's. You may be in for a disappointment. My contorted posts were my attempt to write impartially so as too appear unbiased, and let others expound on the topic, but it seems like people want me to be so blk n white and easy to understand. "Sighs" Yes I started a thread with multiple topics and generalities which it seems to have been a mistake because it only seems to confuse the readers. But if you think of my post as more of an editorial instead of a pro con sort of thing it should make more sense. In the future I will try to keep my posts more specific and linear. I hate having to defend my writing style because it distracts from the intent and nature of the communication flow. Do you think I should start a new topic?

By all that is good and MannCo, please no!

[You suck and have no life 203]

Ack, having a large vocabulary means nothing when your writing sucks balls. Learn to be brief and coherent.