Ban System

[AntiTrust 1]

Just wanted to vent here because I find it hilairous how much work is involved in trying to report someone. I was just on the servers and someone initiated a votescramble and then all of a sudden a flood of no votes come into the system from the same person. So I come here to read the ban how to and whats involved in doing this requires enough work on my part (video captures, screenshots, steamID, correct formatting) that it doesn't seem worth it. These servers either need more admins that we can get in touch with or the system for reporting suspicious activity shouldn't be so involved as its retarding customers from doing it. I really do like LotusClan servers, but I don't like having to do a mountain of paperwork and literally camp the server till I catch him doing it again like some PI on a stakeout.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

It's not really that much work. My first time on this forum was to report someone, and I never even noticed the ban request section. I just went to the link they posted on the server, clicked the first forum I found, and wrote the relevant details. They were kind enough to take action anyway and inform me of the proper way to do it next time. Yeah it's like 2 minutes out of your life to write the ban request, but imagine how much of a pain in the ass it is to take in the reports and respond to them. Requesting a common format on the reports at least makes it easier to handle them quickly, and it's not like they're asking for more than the relevant information you'd be posting anyway. If you post a ban request without relevant details, then what can you expect them to do? Just take your word for it? Nobody wants a system like that.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

AntiTrust, we know it's a lot of work to make the demo and so on. But we can't just ban by gut feeling. If we would do so, we would lose a lot of really good players, that are accused of being cheaters quite often.

Hell, i'm a Medic most of the time, and even i get called a hacker from time to time because my K/D is positive. Not my fault when people run into my needles.

[Nano 7,892]

For what it's worth there will be more admins sooner than later.

That being said, you have to have structure with a ban system (find any other similar size set of TF2 servers that handle it differently), we can't go on the word of random players. Also, you were going to submit a ban request because people voted no to a votescramble (no matter how many times they hit it, their vote only counts once). Thanks for proving our own point for us.

[Wampa Stompa 40]

I understand the need to prove wrongdoing, but I agree with the OP.

Just the other day I saw an aimbotter right as I joined a lotus server. By the time i had gone spectator and got the demo recording, he was dead, then votebanned before he left spawn. So the only way to prove it would be to wait around and see if he comes back. It's pretty damned difficult to get a voteban to pass, so shouldn't that be enough? Why isn't it permanent? Even if a mistake was made, the person could easily find the forums (as Antitrust dide) and have it corrected.

It seems like the admins are never around on a lot of the servers, so why not have server mods? Maybe you already do, but I've never seen them do anything.

AntiTrust, we know it's a lot of work to make the demo and so on. But we can't just ban by gut feeling. If we would do so, we would lose a lot of really good players, that are accused of being cheaters quite often.

Hell, i'm a Medic most of the time, and even i get called a hacker from time to time because my K/D is positive. Not my fault when people run into my needles.

Maybe so. but I'd wager you weren't called a hacker by 90% of the server (or whatever it takes for the vote to pass).

[+Cactus 4,948]

There are a number of the top players on our servers who have been accused of hacking on repeated occasions. Staff have reviewed the ban demos and POV demos from these players, and determined that they not hacking.

Were we to leave permaban decisions to the server, players such as these would not be able to play on Lotus. This would be a huge loss to the community. It is for this reason (among others) that for permanent bans, we require proof and review by admins/Staff.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

Maybe so. but I'd wager you weren't called a hacker by 90% of the server (or whatever it takes for the vote to pass).

You would be surprised. xD
Especially after finishing the round with 100 kills, 40 deaths and 270 assists. ^^

[Se7en 10,762]

You would be surprised. xD

Especially after finishing the round with 100 kills, 40 deaths and 270 assists. ^^

Like a señor.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

Maybe so. but I'd wager you weren't called a hacker by 90% of the server (or whatever it takes for the vote to pass).

You haven't been on Lotus servers very long. I play pyro religiously, where the only thing I really have to aim is the 3 shots on my reserve shooter, and even I've been accused of hacking (though mostly by spies who can't figure out how I'm able to find them). Muriate of Potash gets accused of aimbotting when he plays combat engy. I've seen an overwhelming majority of the server against him for hacking once because he was "always crits" (with frontier justice and mini sentry). There's no IQ requirement for playing TF2. As long as that's the case, I'm pretty sure Lotus has the right idea with requiring proof first. If someone gets banned unjustly, they're a lot less likely to return. If someone has trouble recording a demo to get someone banned, they're probably not going to feel so inconvenienced and mistreated that they never want to come back.

[- Mike - 2,728]

Hrmph. I went 23:1:6 last night on a control point server and no one called me a hacker. I was sniper and the vast majority of those were headshots. Zaythi can vouch

[-Tristan- 948]

Obviously you need to step it up a notch if you want to be accused of hacking, Mike.

Re: the original post, it's more about knowing what you need to do to report than any actual difficulty in reporting.

When I see a hacker, I follow a few simple steps:
1) type status in console; f5; upload screenshot and copy a link

2) join spec, type record <name>, upload demo

3) create post with hacker name, server, description, link to demo and screenshot. (in steam browser)

After you get used to it it only takes about 3 minutes; and if the hacker is gone in fewer than 3 minutes it doesn't seem like there is a huge problem.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

Like a señor.

Si.

[Se7en 10,762]

Hrmph. I went 23:1:6 last night on a control point server and no one called me a hacker. I was sniper and the vast majority of those were headshots. Zaythi can vouch

We all know you hack when you play sniper Mike. Bullets don't have splash damage BTW, yet in your case they somehow do. My 2 cents.

[Wampa Stompa 40]

You haven't been on Lotus servers very long. I play pyro religiously, where the only thing I really have to aim is the 3 shots on my reserve shooter, and even I've been accused of hacking (though mostly by spies who can't figure out how I'm able to find them). Muriate of Potash gets accused of aimbotting when he plays combat engy. I've seen an overwhelming majority of the server against him for hacking once because he was "always crits" (with frontier justice and mini sentry). There's no IQ requirement for playing TF2. As long as that's the case, I'm pretty sure Lotus has the right idea with requiring proof first. If someone gets banned unjustly, they're a lot less likely to return. If someone has trouble recording a demo to get someone banned, they're probably not going to feel so inconvenienced and mistreated that they never want to come back.

You ignored the meaning of my post. Sure, you've been accused by one person at a time, but how many times have you actually been votebanned for hacking? I'm not at all new to lotus servers, btw, and i've never seen a voteban pass against anything other than a genuine aimbotter. This includes times that I've seen literal pros come in for pub stomps.

Obviously the perma-voteban suggestion is over the top, but it got some attention. Here's a more reasonable suggestion: increase moderator/admin presence, because it's been months since I've seen one in any of the servers I frequent. Placing all of the responsibility for these procedures on the player isn't exactly a solution, because I'd guess that fewer than 1% have ever actually been to the website to read through the procedures. Doesn't matter how simple it is if nobody's aware of it, and if they do end up here obviously there's been a significant disruption that drove them to it.

I guess it's just frustrating that there (apparently) aren't any serverside mods to help with this process. It should really be a more automated process, like Valve's reporting system.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

I've seen someone get votebanned for "hacking" because the other team couldn't figure out how to fight against mini sentries. I've been votebanned for "trolling" when I spawn camped on koth. Last night, someone tried to initiate a voteban against someone who was simply playing well for "hacking," and in response the other team initiated a voteban against that player, and it passed. To say that nobody gets votebanned without blatant wrongdoing is a stretch at best and you know it.

By your own account, the last time you saw someone aimbotting, you say they were votebanned. THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED. So your complaint is about the amount of work involved to solve a problem that the automated system already solved. You do see the hole in your logic here, right? If you care so much, then when he comes back, turn on recording and seize your opportunity to catch him. If he doesn't come back, then the problem is gone. Not sure what you could possibly think is wrong with a system that got rid of your problem without requiring you to do all the work you're complaining about.

If players care enough, they'll end up here, just like I did. There are constant alerts on Lotus servers posting the link here. If someone isn't able to figure out how to report someone, they're probably too inept to have a valid case anyway.