Thoughts On New Patch

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

you guys have no clue about balance at all and dare to call stuff imba. funny.

please, read me laughing. hahaha. end.

you can't just go ahead and expect to use only one, ONLY ONE IMBA loadout and kill everything with it. now there is some little changes and you don't want to addapt your ganestyle/loadout because you are used to a totally bullshit combo and therefore suffer now because your brains went lazy in pyro mode in the past.

I CALL MR.RIDICULOUS

TORGUE OUT (reference to pyrobrainZ)

Well, Mr. Dead Ringer Ambassador, look who's talking.

[Harlequin 2,975]

as if you could tell.

lol

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

as if you could tell.

lol

About the Ambassador? Pretty much. You only have Ambassador kill icons, or backstabs. Well. Or facestabs. :-P

[Asjo 90]

bLooDy: I'm a bit confused as to whether you're serious, but regardless, this will probably be the most common reaction from many demo when I finally post on the Steam forums (when Valve finally fucking activate my account). So, I'd like to reply ...

The reason that so many pyros use Degreaser, Flare Gun and Axtinguisher is not that that it's "imba", but rather than the development of the pyro class leads naturally towards this load out. The default, very "toothless", pyro loadout appeals mostly to three groups of players: 1) Hardcore teamplayers - patient players who want to use the pyro for defence and whose offensive play mostly server to enhance the chances of their teammates 2) People who just want to mess about with airblast 3) People who don't understand the game and find m1w a nice and simple way to play. In order for the pyro class to have a broader appeal, it needed the flexibility that the quick damage from crit flares and crit axe, in combination with Degreaser, provides. Not having that option limits your playing style as pyro greatly.

So, it makes complete sense that most pyros will have a similar loadout to the one I describe. Those who don't, are adapting the loadout to specific ways in which the like to play, meaning the loadout can be effective it if fits their specific purpose. Of course, pyros will not change this natural loadout just because a single item hard-counters it. The problem in gameplay is that no specific item should hard-counter a loadout like that. Sure, you can have things can classes and items that counter specific things and provide an advantage, but something that provides a definite hard-counter against a class and it's natural loadout. This only leads to people experiencing that despite outplaying their opponents and putting in their best effort, their actions are fruitless. Instead, they are forced to rely on their teammates to kill off the demoknights, like Gohthecrow recommended as the best tactic in his earlier post. If you compare, a heavy with Natascha is an excellent counter against a lot of pyros. A pyro will have a very hard time, but if they play well and make good decision, they still have a fighting chance. Some pyros might have to adjust their playing-style to beat the heavy, and if the same could be done to deal with the demoknights, there would be no basis to complain.

That said, I do want to correct Ljubica. I certainly don't think it's impossible to actually kill the demoknight with Targin' Charge. More often than not, I do kill them before they kill me. But I want to re-iterate: no matter how well I play, I'm still completely at the mercy of everyone else who wants to kill me for the ten seconds that it takes to kill the demoknight. A skilled demoknight, especially one who has a few heads, will definitely kill me more than I kill them, though, since they will more often charge at me unexpectedly from close range or catch me off guard with pipe bombs. Staying alive against a skilled demoknight requires more airblasting, which means that you're almost certain to use most of your ammo. One of the tactics I'm adapting is the trick you can use against pyro, when you walk backwards, leave your flame hanging in the air and instantly switch to shoot a flare, which allows you to get a crit hit. This just leaves you very vulnerable against the demo.

I don't think yesterday was a fitting example. I wasn't exactly a "good pyro" after being sleep deprived for three days in a row

[Jabberwock 273]

Hrmm. Hrmm. Yes, yes. There are points here. Valid. Much validity. It is very hard to solo a demo-knight if you rely merely on fire, yes. And so we must adapt. Valve has luckily given bullets to send them to hell. While your main art of weapons has no such killing power, you shall switch. That is all.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

Hrmm. Hrmm. Yes, yes. There are points here. Valid. Much validity. It is very hard to solo a demo-knight if you rely merely on fire, yes. And so we must adapt. Valve has luckily given bullets to send them to hell. While your main art of weapons has no such killing power, you shall switch. That is all.

Dude. Go to bed. Sleep. You really, really need it.

[Asjo 90]

Goh, I'm sure you can see that telling pyro that they are forced to use shotgun or Powerjack in order to have a fighting chance against demoknights is hardly a useful point. You've just told pyros that they just have to stop using half of the viable weapons avaiable to them. I don't see how such logic would make sense. Why? Because the game is "broken"? Not to mention that it ignores that vast majority of pyros who don't know the game very well and just runs into people putting them on fire. They will have no chance against the demoknight. I'm sure they don't have much concept of airblasting away their opponents to hit them with the shotgun. Hell, if they use Backburner, that's hardly even an option.

[Jabberwock 273]

Dude. Go to bed. Sleep. You really, really need it.

Oh suuuuure. As soon as I make a bit of compromise, obviously I need to sleep. I see how it is.

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

you guys have no clue about balance at all and dare to call stuff imba. funny.

please, read me laughing. hahaha. end.

you can't just go ahead and expect to use only one, ONLY ONE IMBA loadout and kill everything with it. now there is some little changes and you don't want to addapt your ganestyle/loadout because you are used to a totally bullshit combo and therefore suffer now because your brains went lazy in pyro mode in the past.

I CALL MR.RIDICULOUS

TORGUE OUT (reference to pyrobrainZ)

Says spy who plays pyro with backburner, detonator and script for jump.

Edit:

I know how to play with any pyro loadout. But hell if I will drop my flare gun just because of fucking charging demo.

This only leads to people experiencing that despite outplaying their opponents and putting in their best effort, their actions are fruitless. Instead, they are forced to rely on their teammates to kill off the demoknights, like Gohthecrow recommended as the best tactic in his earlier post. If you compare, a heavy with Natascha is an excellent counter against a lot of pyros. A pyro will have a very hard time, but if they play well and make good decision, they still have a fighting chance. Some pyros might have to adjust their playing-style to beat the heavy, and if the same could be done to deal with the demoknights, there would be no basis to complain.

^ This.

Fighting chance and not to depend on some other xy player.

Edited August 14, 2013 by LjubicaZubica

[Asjo 90]

Finally was allowed to post this on Steam forums. Here is the topic.

[point 2,268]

I have a solution. Just live with it. Arguing about the Chargin Targe or whatever isn't going to get any of you anywhere since it's up to Valve to change it. Please stop. I like my sanity what little of it I have left.

[Possum 10,776]

Don't read the thread then.

[Harlequin 2,975]

dude, you quoted Mr. Torgues speech?
I don't know what to say.

I am honored?
I am shocked that you took my words as serious?

No...I know..

I am shocked that the ppl totaly ignored what Mr. Torgue had to say...

what's wrong with this world?

on Topic, and my serious thoughts on this:

The Buff for demo knigt's is totaly crap.

Allthough I like that valve trys to give player a chance to play the game with various loadouts, not forced to play it with only one because it is too strong.

They should've changed the crit to be mini crit only for flaregun on a burning target. Or reduce the overall weapon dmg of the flaregun so that the crit don't hurt as much.

It's just not fair that pyros can kill so much stuff with one simple, not even hard combo. You guys say that pyros need this dmg buff with axtinguisher because pyros need to get close.

I agree. But on the other hand, I rarely see anyone of you pyros use the axtinguisher anymore, all you do is to get close, just to fart the burning enemy AWAY again so that you can crit him.

That's stupid.

I am okay with the axtinguisher / burning combo. So I do not agree with the Demoknight buff. Overall I hate demoknights.

But I do not agree with the full crit dmg that the flares are doing right now.

[Jabberwock 273]

The insides of mine tummy giggle at the lollygagging of this post still breathing through the tiny hole in its posterier.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

dude, you quoted Mr. Torgues speech?

I don't know what to say.

I am honored?

I am shocked that you took my words as serious?

No...I know..

I am shocked that the ppl totaly ignored what Mr. Torgue had to say...

what's wrong with this world?

on Topic, and my serious thoughts on this:

The Buff for demo knigt's is totaly crap.

Allthough I like that valve trys to give player a chance to play the game with various loadouts, not forced to play it with only one because it is too strong.

They should've changed the crit to be mini crit only for flaregun on a burning target. Or reduce the overall weapon dmg of the flaregun so that the crit don't hurt as much.

It's just not fair that pyros can kill so much stuff with one simple, not even hard combo. You guys say that pyros need this dmg buff with axtinguisher because pyros need to get close.

I agree. But on the other hand, I rarely see anyone of you pyros use the axtinguisher anymore, all you do is to get close, just to fart the burning enemy AWAY again so that you can crit him.

That's stupid.

I am okay with the axtinguisher / burning combo. So I do not agree with the Demoknight buff. Overall I hate demoknights.

But I do not agree with the full crit dmg that the flares are doing right now.

Put short: the "i see Asjo and i am dead because he will crit kill me within less than a second" bullshit is not appreciated at all, but making Demoknights basically fire-resistant wasn't a good idea.

[Harlequin 2,975]

Put short: the "i see Asjo and i am dead because he will crit kill me within less than a second" bullshit is not appreciated at all, but making Demoknights basically fire-resistant wasn't a good idea.

FYI: I am a Spy

[Possum 10,776]

FYI: I am a Spy

O rly

[Ruby 9,039]

O rly

I didn't knew Dr. Obvious transcended into bLooDyX.

[Jabberwock 273]

Immunity to flame was but THE FIRST STEP! Tomorrow, we begins phase two: OPERATION NO BACKSIDE! Ahahahaha! Soon, soon we shall have NO WEAKNESSES!!

[+Cactus 4,948]

Immunity to flame was but THE FIRST STEP! Tomorrow, we begins phase two: OPERATION NO BACKSIDE! Ahahahaha! Soon, soon we shall have NO WEAKNESSES!!

The only fair thing to do is to give pyro the Razorback and an anti-headshot helmet.

[Harlequin 2,975]

The only fair thing to do is to give pyro the Razorback and an anti-headshot helmet.

don't forget the jetpack.

[Ruby 9,039]

The only fair thing to do is to give pyro the Razorback and an anti-headshot helmet.

Darwin's Danger Shield is actually a decent item now.

[point 2,268]

Darwin's Danger Shield is actually a decent item now.

It's a cheap item. The number of times I've quickscoped snoipah nubs e.g. Cactus only to find out I didn't get the frag is really freakin' high.

[Jabberwock 273]

It's a cheap item. The number of times I've quickscoped snoipah nubs e.g. Cactus only to find out I didn't get the frag is really freakin' high.

But boy oh boy, do soldiers kill ya quick.

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

Poor pyro... dont hate her so much

They fixed flare gun and it is only fire weapon worth playing with.

125 hp dies from fire and crit flare, but over 125 not. And its harder to fight against pyros. And you have to predict movement to hit with flare, therefor airblast helps to Push in direction you want.

All we need nerfed flaregun and then no point in playing pyro. Can just swap on solider for good.

And now I realised I didn't quote all mighty and Im on pad, so deal with no quoting lol