Stack-O-Matic

[Spartan_0214 18]

Teams are fine. That is all.

[KillerKeg 10]

So people really sit in spec just because they don't want to join the losing team?

Yes.

[Melissia 7]

I don't care if the lotusclan members are winning or losing. I want to play with my friends regardless.

[CrackNorris 1]

So people really sit in spec just because they don't want to join the losing team?

On the UK servers, you get the regulars who've formed some clan waiting in spec because they all want to play on the same team together, then people on the 'sucky' team start complaining, and leaving, then teams get autobalanced, then people move to spec, and the cycle starts over.

[Victoreem the V of doom 30]

hey guys!

quick post regarding stacked teams. tonight Friday, July 11 the server was not stacked in any favor and resulted in Very good fun.

BURRAAAA!!!!

[Graedus 9]

...Until the Turbine map

[Dexter Morgan 1]

What the greatest challenge for me is when I join game and have friends... on both red and blue teams!!! Oh noes, what do I do?!?! Life's s bitch.

[Link2086 5]

What the greatest challenge for me is when I join game and have friends... on both red and blue teams!!! Oh noes, what do I do?!?! Life's s bitch.

That is so true. I have problems with deciding and tend to either pick random at that point or go with whoever tells me to join their team first.

[Dexter Morgan 1]

That is so true. I have problems with deciding and tend to either pick random at that point or go with whoever tells me to join their team first.

lawl

[Bombz 31]

I don't have friends, only enemies

In all seriousness though i can see the point that people make. In fact, any server owner wants people to consistently join their servers. Unfortunately some people out there are going to be first timers to the server and if their experience is exceptionally bad, they most likely won't rejoin. You know the kind I'm talking about. The Medics who stand around with 100% uber and get sniped or the Spies who spam sap until they're gibbed.

The challenge is to make those noobs part of the winners at the very least SOME of the time. I've never had a problem being on the losing side and actually prefer to be on the team which has players who aren't as skilled. But you have to realize there is a difference between a short game and a complete steamroll.

There aren't many balancer plugins out there that can appease both the donor crowds and the others so it's a hard thing to adjust. But at the very least the team numbers need to always be even.

[zeik 2]

Time to inject some "old-school" into this argument.

This is not a new issue, it was an issue in quake, it was an issue in TFC (which i started playing a decade ago and adminned 20+ servers at one point).

So now it's story time...

I picked up TF2 on a whim about 3 months ago and the first server I played on was the lotus server I still play on.

About a day into tf2 I was adjusting to the differences between TFC and TF2 and someone commented that anyone below 10 points at that point on badlands should find a different server to learn on because this was not the place to do it.

That stuck with me and served as a challenge. I got my knife back in shape and am pretty respectable now.

I play on whichever team I feel like; hunting funky and lorax is fun, but I don't always feel like carrying a losing team that doesn't communicate so sometimes I play with the friends I've made and that is my perrogative, but either way I never bitch about the teams being unbalanced... I DO bitch about the lack of skill of teammates who are more interested in crying that bettering themselves...

The point of what I am saying is:

The best way to not get rolled/beaten/destroyed map after map after map is for YOU to take iniative and better yourself.

It comes down to a personaly responsibility issue. This entire post is filled with people complaining about how other people are being unfair to them, yet if those same people focused as much time on improving their play level as they did on complaining about teams, then there would be no need for them to complain because the skill level would be equal.

Moral of the story, YOU control your own experience, not those around you.

[Graedus 9]

Moral of the story, YOU control your own experience, not those around you.

Unless you'r a medic and you uber someone and they run away. That happens too often on the "bad team".

[Bombz 31]

I disagree.

You know, we could all be those people who liked to donate (Which I have, but only so I can connect when it's full) and we could all just join the same team and happily murder a hopeless team. Yeah, it's fun for me, but for how long? You guys out there, you HLStats / PsychoStats freaks know who I'm talking about. You either idle in spec until you're on that dominant team or you donate to do it. Surprising that the whole goal here is to "Just play, Just improve and just have fun" yet people are sitting idle in spectator for a long time before ever playing. That doesn't make a good case for "Just playing" does it? I've been watching my ranking and right now I've moved up from being at around 1,000 something from my half a year hiatus to now #33 and I'm quite proud of myself, because I usually attempt to always join the lesser team. I don't have fun rolling over and over and OVER again. To me, some of the other people out there joining the stacked teams are the ones who are really in need of improving. I mean, you have a bunch of players dominating on one team and then a few others just joining in on the rape fest because hey, we don't WANT to lose. That's my idea of someone who needs to improve, those that can't hold their own without others holding their hand either through coordinated attacks or pocket medic.

The last thing that I personally feel I should be obligated to do is try and improve my own play on a team which is obviously hopeless from the get go. I can't be a mentor to every newbie on my team. The most surprising thing is though, that it takes all of 2 or 3 people to decide to swap over and suddenly it's a balanced game, but I suppose that is asking for a bit too much?

[Link2086 5]

yet people are sitting idle in spectator for a long time before ever playing.

This is honestly the only real problem I've seen. Like other people have mentioned, a lot of the steamrolling tends to happen because one team communicates better than the other, and you really can't punish them for that. I would like to encourage people to swap to the losing team in a group occasionally, but the main problem is when we have 14 on one team, 6 on the other, and eight spectators.

[Bombz 31]

This is honestly the only real problem I've seen. Like other people have mentioned, a lot of the steamrolling tends to happen because one team communicates better than the other, and you really can't punish them for that. I would like to encourage people to swap to the losing team in a group occasionally, but the main problem is when we have 14 on one team, 6 on the other, and eight spectators.

I see your point. In all situations the team that communications and coordinates is going to win, even if they're slightly outmatched. But there have been plenty of times when a team is just comprised of players who just aren't good enough to compete, regardless of whether they communicate over voice or not. In situations like this it only takes 1 or 2 people who are good on the other team to balance it out.

You really hurt no one but yourself when you frustrate others into leaving the server and possibly never coming back. Just so I'm clear on this I'll reiterate it. I'm not saying a team should never LOSE, but there is a difference between losing a tough battle, a 5 minute battle and a complete roll. Though rolls will sometimes happen against teams here and there, when it gets to the point that you're rolling every round someone needs to get a clue and they never do.

Fortunately most of the time someones able to put through a votescramble but it doesn't always succeed.

[Graedus 9]

Why does it always seem the votescramble vote succeeds right when both teams seem to be playing evenly?

[Captain Planet 28]

Cause, you know, if you lose, its obvious that the teams are stacked :S

[Bombz 31]

Just so I'm clear on this I'll reiterate it. I'm not saying a team should never LOSE, but there is a difference between losing a tough battle, a 5 minute battle and a complete roll. Though rolls will sometimes happen against teams here and there, when it gets to the point that you're rolling every round someone needs to get a clue and they never do.

[Victoreem the V of doom 30]

to be fair the "bad" team is usually the team with the most new(ish) players, the fewest with mics, and the fewest with friends on that team . These players picked a bad server to join because without a mic you can't effectively distribute information, your playing advanced players some of which could be considered the best (me ) ,and most are friends who are comfortable talking, yelling, making a pussy joke, or screaming spy 4 seconds after you've been stabbed.

as stated above you just have to get better. I started donating after I got good enough to consistently hit top scores in multiple classes in various team situations. There's a point where your experienced enough to just know when somethings going to happen. where a soldier walks by and you KNOW its a spy, you don't know how you know when it clicks, you just know.

It also helps to have a decent frame rate and sound. I'm deaf in my left ear so that makes me a bit crippled in that regard.

Key word the people who know each other are not at fault for simply being better. Its the fuckwit spec assholes and on quite a few occasions they are friends who didn't donate...because they are uncool and smell funny

[You suck and have no life 203]

Time to inject some "old-school" into this argument.

This is not a new issue, it was an issue in quake, it was an issue in TFC (which i started playing a decade ago and adminned 20+ servers at one point).

Moral of the story, YOU control your own experience, not those around you.

I agree with this 100%. And to expand on this thought, it actually extends to beyond video games. This applies to all aspects life as well. Most people simply refuse to put the responsiblity upon themselves. Remember when Obama was running and so many people thought he was Jesus and that he would cure all their problems? When people don't make as much money, they blame the economy. When they are sick, they blame healthcare. Sure these things matter to some extent, but who's decisions impact your life the most? Its you. Obama cant make you pick up a book, Obama cant make you eat healthy, or save money.

I just find it funny people are whining about stacked teams. I have brought shitty teams to victory single handly many many times, you think that all 10 of them would maybe man up, get some skill, and stop whining.

FYI, this may sound like a no brainer, but most people never though of this.

"it is a LOT easier to change YOURSELF than it is to change the WORLD"

If you want money, then go out, learn the skills, get the degree and find the job. Don't wait for the government to bail you out.

If you want a hot gf, then go out every night, and learn the social skill sets, body language etc. Don't wait for all women to change so they like your newbness. You change yourself to have the attractive qualities.

If you wan't to stop getting raped in TF2, then get the KDR, get the skill, bring your own team to victory rather than hoping the better players magically want to come to your team.

[Bombz 31]

I agree with this 100%. And to expand on this thought, it actually extends to beyond video games. This applies to all aspects life as well. Most people simply refuse to put the responsiblity upon themselves. Remember when Obama was running and so many people thought he was Jesus and that he would cure all their problems? When people don't make as much money, they blame the economy. When they are sick, they blame healthcare. Sure these things matter to some extent, but who's decisions impact your life the most? Its you. Obama cant make you pick up a book, Obama cant make you eat healthy, or save money.

I just find it funny people are whining about stacked teams. I have brought shitty teams to victory single handly many many times, you think that all 10 of them would maybe man up, get some skill, and stop whining.

FYI, this may sound like a no brainer, but most people never though of this.

"it is a LOT easier to change YOURSELF than it is to change the WORLD"

If you want money, then go out, learn the skills, get the degree and find the job. Don't wait for the government to bail you out.

If you want a hot gf, then go out every night, and learn the social skill sets, body language etc. Don't wait for all women to change so they like your newbness. You change yourself to have the attractive qualities.

If you wan't to stop getting raped in TF2, then get the KDR, get the skill, bring your own team to victory rather than hoping the better players magically want to come to your team.

Let's face it, there's a big difference between achieving and going after your goals in life as opposed to playing a video game; and casually I might add.

If you suspect there's tons more to 24/7 Dustbowl than casualness I'll probably laugh. I mean, the rankings are cool but let's face it, half the people on there got there because they piggy backed off a far superior team. Just my opinion.

[Victoreem the V of doom 30]

is there nothing we can say to you? individual skill = team strength

get better

make friends

play game

nuf said

[Spartan_0214 18]

sp;dr

[Cpt0bvius 0]

I think people really need to stop blaming suckyness on stacking. When I first came to the lotus servers I wasn't the greatest....well, I was pretty bad. After playing a while, mostly on the side opposed to the "stackers" I've improved drastically, even consistently getting over double the K:D that I would get when I started. The only times that I really dislike are times when there is griefing at spawn such as ctf_well where they get someone to join the other side to open up the doors. Otherwise it is perfectly fine. People also need to realize that you can only really get better by playing a better opponent, and that if you kill highly ranked players, you get a lot more skill on the stats page than killing lower ranked players.

[You suck and have no life 203]

Let's face it, there's a big difference between achieving and going after your goals in life as opposed to playing a video game.

Have you ever noticed that some people pick up things faster than others? There is an actual skillset in acquiring new skills. People who lack this never achieve anything. Being good at games is simply a skill. Developing that is no different than developing a skill for a sport or anything else. Its just that games are not the most productive.

While games aren't a perfect indication of someones intelligence, you can't tell a lot from how someone plays. Of course there are always exceptions. For example if a guy never played in his life, or he has a muscle regenerative disease, or whatever. But for the normal average player, you can tell who has common sense and who's a complete retard and failure at life.

Edited August 4, 2009 by YouSuckAndYouHaveNoLife