Please Take The Time To Read This

[dchow 1]

I have a theory about this game and why its competitive community has shrunk over time from the beginning. Its overall community is the worst I've witnessed in any online game I've played. Just join any pub and play and you'll realize how terrible everyone is. Now, I'm not asking for pubbers to hit airshots or anything that requires an above average skill level. I'm talking about them not knowing how the hell the game works after they've had this game for more than a couple months.

Lately all I've been doing is pubbing since I really don't have enough time to dedicate to a competitive team. I can tell you that when there's more than 20 people in the server the same damn thing happens every time. One team caps mid, then engis on each team set up in the same generic spots for a 20 minute deadlock. I don't have anything against the engineer class, just the idiots who play it and end up making the round a stalemate. Then what do they do in sudden death? Set up in the same spot for another deadlock. It blows my mind that people pay for this game to hit buildings with a wrench while nothing happens. Enough about everybody's favorite class the engi. Scout players still love to jump around randomly in the air and hit nothing. Demos still just sticky doors and effortlessly spam nades in areas. Most soldiers STILL don't know how to rj, wtf! Medics personally heal heavies and uber them for a single kill. I've tried talking to players politely and give them advice, but they're all stuck up nerds.

Pubbing is the core of a strong competitive community. I've played games with strong communities such as Battlefield 1942, BF2, CS 1.6, and hell even Soldat back in the day when I was stuck with a 64mb gpu for a few months. Battlefield's pubs were uncomparable to any game I've ever played. Most players were mature, idiot players were shot down, even with no communication players would have a basic understanding of teamwork. Battlefield is the only game where I didn't get bored of pubbing and ended up playing competitively. As a result, there were well more than a handful of top teams that could compete evenly with eachother. Something TF2 hasn't seen in a while.

CS 1.6 I'd say has the best community when you look at skill. Most players are playing to improve, but honestly who wouldn't be when you have to sit out the round after you die. If you ask me, this is why 1.6 has been the most popular FPS in the world still after all these years; because players want to improve.

Now let's look at the TF2 stat page: http://www.steampowered.com/status/tf2/tf..

So let me get this straight. I'm sure the majority of players who are playing tf2 right now have had this game long enough to be able to figure out how it works. It took the competitive community days to realize that scout/medic/soldier/demo are the most effective classes. Pubbers are still playing classes that don't take much skill and have very little room for improvement (I think it's safe to assume that most of the snipers are the ones that just spam their arrows for a kill 1/5 times.)

Honestly I've given up hope that TF2's competitive community will grow any larger. It's pointless to blame the comp community, the developers, or anything else. The way I see it, pubbers would rather just take their time and use tf2 to make parody videos and share their favorite hlss with everyone in the server instead of actually thinking for a second about the game and improving themselves as a player. Oh and let's face it. The game's graphic style has attracted more nerds and scared off more serious players from playing this game.

POSTED BY ZAMBINO

http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/forums/th...09625/?cpage=2

#92

I DON'T ASK FOR ARGUEMENTS...

JUST PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS THROUGH AND THINK ABOUT IT RATHER THAN SAYING THAT I AM WRONG AND YOU ARE RIGHT.

[Link2086 5]

Steam forums are this way, bro.

While I agree that there are certainly people who don't have a clue how the game works or just like to spam stuff, it doesn't really bug me that much. I just play to have fun.

I'm also a little confused as to why this is addressed to Lotus as opposed to the TF2 community in general. Like I said, you might get a better reception and reach a wider audience on the Steam forums.

[CloakedStarship 7]

While I agree that there are certainly people who don't have a clue how the game works or just like to spam stuff, it doesn't really bug me that much. I just play to have fun.

QFT. TF2 is one of the few games where you don't need to be a ninja to have fun.

And as for saying that the BF2 community are good pubbers, thats a downright fallacy. I played BF2 since it was released, its long since lost anything that made it worth a damn, but when I did play it, the only thing that made a pub worthwhile was the clan you went into the pub with. You were just asking for trouble if you thought you could rely on anyone in there. One of the most common phrases used by myself and the people I played with when playing BF2 was, "This team is (insert generic insult here)"

I am a person who finds comfort in patterns and consistency, so it comforts me to know that in most multiplayer games you either have a good team or a bad team, and that its damn rare if there is a balance (though highly enjoyable it is when this occurs).

[+Henry Spencer 117]

I TUNNEL HEAL SOLDIERS AND KRITZ TO SHOVEL KILL HUNTSMAN SNIPERS, I DON'T GIVE A FUUUUUUUUUCK

[Spartan_0214 18]

tl;dr. I saw competitive TF2 and loled. I know there are extremely competitive professional TF2 players, but that strikes me as, well, silly. Video games are made to have fun. Professionals, though they love games, don't always have fun when they're playing competitively. They're trying to make a buck. TF2 is not serious business.

[Game AI Dev (Dave) 17]

I'm trying to figure out what servers he's playing on. The ones I play on regularly are almost never the same thing twice. And this whole "stalemate" thing he's talking about only happens on the likes of 2Fort which is, by its very nature, a turtle-friendly concept.

Still, there is a point in there somewhere about how people don't understand how the different classes should be used properly (e.g. 5 snipers, 3 spies and 3 engies will never get a payload cart pushed). That much I agree with. However, I don't agree that it is hopeless. Often, all it takes is someone on the team to point out a concept and most people understand and learn it. (e.g. if there are 5 seconds left in the match, it doesn't help to start building a dispenser)

Your complaint about the TF2 community is naturally a function of its accessibility and the size of the community. Lesser known or less accessible games naturally only retain people who are dedicated to it. TF2 was made for the masses and, as such, you have to expect that there are plenty of dumb asses in the dumb masses. *shrug* Given that, what do you propose? A competency exam? Prove you don't have your head up your butt or uninstall the game? In short, where the hell are you going with this?

[Victoreem the V of doom 30]

I DON'T ASK FOR ARGUEMENTS...

JUST PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS THROUGH AND THINK ABOUT IT RATHER THAN SAYING THAT I AM WRONG AND YOU ARE RIGHT.

You are wrong. This is the wrong place for this. I play to have fun. Your a loser. The css community is a group of terrible foamy mouthed racist losers who in between drinking massive amounts of redbull and mountain dew are catching their breath from spewing so much hate and broken English over the mic.

[JonasV 9]

tl:dr

[Melissia 7]

I don't ask for arguments

No, STFU.

Gah, honestly people.

[Zektro 0]

tl;dr = ???

[Graedus 9]

tl:dr = ???

Too long; didn't read

[Rydawg 14]

Demo spam is pro

[friedrice 8]

I have a theory about this game and why its competitive community has shrunk over time from the beginning. Its overall community is the worst I've witnessed in any online game I've played. Just join any pub and play and you'll realize how terrible everyone is. Now, I'm not asking for pubbers to hit airshots or anything that requires an above average skill level. I'm talking about them not knowing how the hell the game works after they've had this game for more than a couple months.

This is how far I got, and even then I'll never get that time added back to my life

[redruM_13 17]

This guy is obviously from the competitive TF2 crowd. I have one question for these people that has never been answered.... Why do you play 6 vs 6 when there are 9 classes? I know that it must be tough to put together bigger teams, but this game was obviously made for bigger team play. I have talked to people from the comp community about this and the only thing that they will say is, "TF2 sucks man". Basically what this guy just wrote here. What a fag!

[Melissia 7]

Oh, it's a complaint from a competative player.

GTFO bitch. Competative players have done their damnedest to ruin the RTS genre with their starcrap assfaggery, and for that they can never be forgiven.

[JonasV 9]

Anyone who takes a gaming hobby and turns it into a job = moron. Thus why I don't listen to competitive gamers.

So again tl:dr, go take your nonsense elsewhere.

Edited August 31, 2009 by JonasV

[Zektro 0]

Anyone who takes a gaming hobby and turns it into a job = moron.

*Note: Just being a smart ass here.

Technically if your job/career is video production, and you make machinimas as a job (at least part time), then they aren't morons, are they?

[Moleman 0]

Why do you play 6 vs 6 when there are 9 classes? I know that it must be tough to put together bigger teams, but this game was obviously made for bigger team play.

cause 6v6 is the most reasonable matchup in any league.

There are other competitive matches like 5v5, 7v7, 8v8, and 9v9, but only the main leagues use 6v6.

and competitive play wasn't made for 16v16 or 12v12.

[Melissia 7]

Moleman: Congratulations on providing non-reasons. Try harder to explain yourself next time, because you sound stupid giving a non-answer that basicly amounts to saying "just because" rather than a REAL reason that people might actually accept or might even have a tiny bit of logic to it.

Maybe 9v9 isn't accepted because tournament players are shitty people and have problems getting those six more people needed to play in team matches. Maybe 6v6 is accepted because tourney players are shitty players who can't stand larger matches.

I think so at any rate. But then I think of "competative player" as an insult, as they tend to be total twats.

[Moby 24]

I really hate it when games try to appeal to new and unskilled players. They should raise the price of TF2 to about $200 and have it require a special controller to play (which requires a license to own). Stupid casuals.

[Moleman 0]

Maybe 9v9 isn't accepted because tournament players are shitty people and have problems getting those six more people needed to play in team matches. Maybe 6v6 is accepted because tourney players are shitty players who can't stand larger matches.

9v9 IS accepted in some leagues

Have you ever played a 6v6? not 16v16.

Tournament players might be shitty people.

but I'm sure there not shitty players.

[Link2086 5]

cause 6v6 is the most reasonable matchup in any league.

There are other competitive matches like 5v5, 7v7, 8v8, and 9v9, but only the main leagues use 6v6.

and this game wasn't made for big team play.

Wait, let me get this straight. Team Fortress 2 was not made for big team play?

And here I thought it was 24 players vanilla and 32 players max.

Playing 6v6 is great and all, but that's not playing TF2, that's playing Generic FPS Deathmatch.

[redruM_13 17]

Moleman: Congratulations on providing non-reasons. Try harder to explain yourself next time, because you sound stupid giving a non-answer that basicly amounts to saying "just because" rather than a REAL reason that people might actually accept or might even have a tiny bit of logic to it.

Maybe 9v9 isn't accepted because tournament players are shitty people and have problems getting those six more people needed to play in team matches. Maybe 6v6 is accepted because tourney players are shitty players who can't stand larger matches.

I think so at any rate. But then I think of "competative player" as an insult, as they tend to be total twats.

Like I said.... no one can answer the "Why do you guys play 6 vs 6 when there are 9 classes?" They just bullshit around it like fucking idiots. I got tired of arguing with them on Gotfrags or Getfrags (maybe Getfags?) when I was looking into tourney play. These people are morons that play just as much TF2 as any of us and complain and whine like fucking pussies. They are part of the reason that I donate. So I can switch teams when they start crying about all the noobs and blah blah blah........

[Victoreem the V of doom 30]

ALL OF THE DEFINITIONS OF FUN

# activities that are enjoyable or amusing; "I do it for the fun of it"; "he is fun to have around"

# verbal wit or mockery (often at another's expense but not to be taken seriously); "he became a figure of fun"; "he said it in sport"

# violent and excited activity; "she asked for money and then the fun began"; "they began to fight like fun"

# playfulness: a disposition to find (or make) causes for amusement; "her playfulness surprised me"; "he was fun to be with"

# fun. is an indie pop band based in New York, New York that was formed by Nate Ruess, formerly of The Format. Ruess formed the band with Andrew Dost of Anathallo and Jack Antonoff of Steel Train. fun. ...

# "Fun" is the name of a House/Garage single (and popular club anthem) recorded by Da Mob, an American House music collective that featured ...

# The Format was an indie pop band formed by Arizona natives Nate Ruess and Sam Means. The band announced a hiatus on February 4, 2008. Their style can be considered a mixture of indie, alternative, punk and folk music, with elements of 1960s and 1970s pop music. ...

# Recreation or fun is the expenditure of time in a manner designed for therapeutic refreshment of one's body or mind. ...

# This is a list of episodes from season one of the Nickelodeon animated television comedy, SpongeBob SquarePants. The first season of SpongeBob SquarePants premiered on with "Help Wanted", "Reef Blower", and "Tea at the Treedome". The season consisted of twenty episodes. ...

# Fun is a 1994 independent drama film starring Alicia Witt and Renée Humphrey, directed by Rafal Zielinski. ...

# Fun was a Victorian weekly magazine, first published on 21 September 1861. The magazine was founded by the actor and playwright H. J. Byron in competition with Punch magazine.

# Fun is the first major label album by singer-songwriter Daniel Johnston.

# amusement, enjoyment or pleasure; playful, often noisy, activity; To tease, kid, poke fun at; enjoyable, amusing; whimsical, flamboyant

# the activity is chosen for its light-hearted character

# This key word is used to define a function.

HMMMM TORRNIE PLAY NOT IN THERE GUESS I WIN

[Mana 3,867]

When this game came out... It had random damage (something like 50%+/- from base weapon damage) as well as crits with no way of disabling it. It took Valve over a year to add some cvars to disable this.

At that point it was very clear to me that this wasn't a game made with competitive play in mind.

I would say more... but Gabe is fat so that's that.