2Fort London X33 Size Downgraded

[Skelton 4]

This server was 32 man last night and this morning just after the latest patch went live but is now a 24 man server. Has the server been downgraded to 24 permanently or is it a temporary thing?

[Willerms 1,794]

I believe the server size alternates between x24 and x33 depending on the traffic. I don't know for sure though.

[- Mike - 2,728]

People would just do that? Join a x33 2Fort server?

[Se7en 10,762]

People would just do that? Join a x33 2Fort server?

You have no idea.

[Skelton 4]

It's usually quite fun with 32 if both teams have competent fun loving players who also want to win. Lots of teamwork for winning games. Then Se7en will join and ruin everything with his blackbox battlements camping soldier with another 8 soldier/demo blues following him camping the spawn so half my team can't get out whilst on the opposite end of the map the same thing is happening in retaliation and no one is capping intel. A dampener of fun that bit.

[Nano 7,892]

Then Se7en will join and ruin everything with his blackbox battlements camping soldier with another 8 soldier/demo blues following him camping the spawn so half my team can't get out whilst on the opposite end of the map the same thing is happening in retaliation and no one is capping intel. A dampener of fun that bit.

Not sure if joking, or idiot.

[Jericho. 49]

It's usually quite fun with 32 if both teams have competent fun loving players who also want to win. Lots of teamwork for winning games.

Teamwork on our 2fort server? Usually there's not a single Engineer on the team I am on and alot of spam in the other one so not sure if you're talking about this server. You rarely find teamwork on 2fort it's usually just a huge spamfest, guess 2fort was created just for that but I'm fine with that as long as I get my kills.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Jericho.ForThePeeps

[Possum 10,776]

Teamwork on our 2fort server? Usually there's not a single Engineer on the team I am on and alot of spam in the other one so not sure if you're talking about this server. You rarely find teamwork on 2fort it's usually just a huge spamfest, guess 2fort was created just for that but I'm fine with that as long as I get my kills.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand that's why I play Dustbowl, not 2fort.

But yeah I think Willerms is right, some of the other servers do it as well I think (either that or I'm hallucinating).

[Willerms 1,794]

SFEN, WHY DO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE TERRIBLE TO THE NORMIES?

I still love you though

[Skelton 4]

Not sure if joking, or idiot.

Not sure if unable to detect sarcasm, or deliberately attempting to alienate own community.

[Willerms 1,794]

Not sure if unable to detect sarcasm, or deliberately attempting to alienate own community.

Not sure if joking, or idiot.

[- Oli - 1,121]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand that's why I play Dustbowl, not 2fort.

But yeah I think Willerms is right, some of the other servers do it as well I think (either that or I'm hallucinating).

Nah dustbowl has worse spam usually...

demomen - oh look nades, nades, more nades, more nades, even more nades... because there's two points of entry and on is the main..

And sometimes a demoman who rarely uses the sticky bomb launcher - oh but spams that...

Hmm 2fort has little teamwork on the server as too few people have mics and often teams lack even a medic.

That said, when a few of the "lads" are on it's a good game T'would be epic if we got all the lads (and ladess in the case of ljubica zubica) to have a game together, would be quite competitive.

[Nano 7,892]

Not sure if Willerms, or ProLoser.

Just not sure.

[Possum 10,776]

Nah dustbowl has worse spam usually...

demomen - oh look nades, nades, more nades, more nades, even more nades... because there's two points of entry and on is the main..

And sometimes a demoman who rarely uses the sticky bomb launcher - oh but spams that...

Hmm 2fort has little teamwork on the server as too few people have mics and often teams lack even a medic.

That said, when a few of the "lads" are on it's a good game T'would be epic if we got all the lads (and ladess in the case of ljubica zubica) to have a game together, would be quite competitive.

I was more referring to the teamwork side. Though on Dustbowl, there is this thing called an ubercharge to combat the spam. Don't see many of those on 2Fort

If you see me on when there is a good crowd, hit me up. Then I can join you.and see what I'm "missing out on".

[- Oli - 1,121]

I was more referring to the teamwork side. Though on Dustbowl, there is this thing called an ubercharge to combat the spam. Don't see many of those on 2Fort

If you see me on when there is a good crowd, hit me up. Then I can join you.and see what I'm "missing out on".

If se7en makes a good crowd you miss spawn camping/battlements sniper killing fests

Uhhmm well all good saying that, shame medics rarely heal me/uber me...

and if you uber where they're spamming, you don't often kill the sentries in time

[Asjo 90]

You guys must be kidding me! More teamplay on Dustbowl than 2Fort? What's great about Dustbowl is that it's so action-packed. Some classes will really enjoy it because built in a way that allows them to get the full benefit of their class. For this reason, Dustbowl is often plagued with sticky demos who have a golden opportunity to spam and camp choke points and are the only ones who cal effectively take out the many sentries of the defense from longer range.

I've played Dustbowl for longer than I have 2Fort, but once I discovered the joys of 2Fort, there was no going back. Dustbowl seemed just empty action in comparison, whereas 2Fort offered a full-game experience with many facets of play. There is a lot of teamwork. Sure, you mostly only get the teamwork you create, but the map really encourages it as well. At first, playing 2Fort, I didn't really get the teamwork, and I thought it was actually a silly map because of the unfair fights on bridge and the seemingly random back and forth. I thought of Dustbowl as the serious map, with 2Fort being one that was too random and didn't allow for proper action. It was only when I got to play with LjubicaZubica for a while and realize the teamplay aspects of the map that I realized how great it was. She's really a godsent to the server, since she's one who always brings some people to the action. I doubt you'll find a more intelligent and devoted teamplayer, and she very often communicates and shows great care for whatever the team's trying to achieve. There are other regulars who also do their best for the team and communicate with microphone frequently. Once you have 4-5 regulars on a team, you are often guaranteed good teamplay and communication. If I'm on a team full of newbie and players who are new to the server, I try to direct them and let people know how the can help, and it often works out. Sometimes people just don't listen or care, but they still have to adapt to the other team and thus still play their role.

Let me mention a few of the instances where 2Fort is built for teamplay:

• Multi-pronged attacks: If you only attack from either bridge or sewers, and don't break through right away, it's too easy for the opponents to just defend one of them and make it nearly impossible to get through that way. That's why you will often see two attack teams attack simultanously. Another thing that helps is that demos and soldiers can jump up and attack through balcony, which gives the opponents another path to cover if you do it right. Sometimes, you don't have a good enough team or a composition that allows you to take out a well-covered in courtyard. You simply run into the sentry and never getting it down, killing a few opponents while they clear out your attack team. Often, a good soldier can break a stalemate by covering the opponent ramp, sniping a few of the sentries in courtyard/spawn or perhaps sneaking through to pick up the intel, forcing the opponent team to react and therefore loosen their defenses.
  

• Sewer bases: If your team gets a base in enemy sewers, there is often a tendency that many players will linger there. It's a great shortcut to the opponent base and therefore also worth defending, but if the opponents keep attacking it, it's also somewhere that people are just content to stay and spam at the opponents. So, for the defending team that means that a big group of players if often required to break the sewer base. Here, people often wait for the right composition and try to get medic with uber to help break. People make an effort to make sure that the uber is delivered successfully at the end of the tunnel, instead of bieng user too early.
  

• Bridge bases: One team that dominates often get the chance to place sentries on bridge and lock it down. The default response to this is for the opponents to go demo, since demos easily kills sentries. They will take it down successfully if you don't have dilligent soldier who hold down the enemy balcony, and often they will do this because of the reward that the dispensers and sentry cover brings them.
  

• Role of spies: While on some other maps, spies could be dangerous anywhere, on 2Fort there's a clear sense of panic when a spy is "inside the base". So, often a spy entering the base will bring about a concerted team effort to kill him if he's discovered. Against a defensive team, the spies will often have a hard time of their own. Therefore, you will often see spies coordinating with attacks. Some sentries that are really hard to break can be down in seconds with spy sapping. What's different from undermaps is that when spies finally get into the opponent base, they will be in an undercover function, serving the needs of the teams in different places depending on the action. Because there are so many areas for action and these change so often, spies need to be flexible and adapt, not just doing the same thing again and again, to which the other team will quickly catch on.
  

• Intel defense: One of the most important elements of teamplay is the intel defense. Sure, you could say the same about other CTF maps, but there, because of the pathways to intel, they often turn into random spam, but since, in 2Fort, the intel is often away from most of the action and not the certer of it, a different kind of teamplay is required. There are two pathways to intel that are important to cover: straight (aka "longstairs", near courtyard) and spiral. Once opponents get down to the intel room, it can be really hard to stop them. Either, they success in keeping the defenders busy with a two attackers only have to fight through 2-3 players to get away with the intel, or a scout will be too quick to escape with the intel and get too far before he's stopped, allowing his team to finish the job. That forced a team to be very sensitive about enemies entering. Often, a team will have a sentry in front door which covery both the lobby entrances and top of sewers. This sentry will allow you to slow down the advance of your opponents. It will often be killed by a good team, but it serves as an early warning system. Soldiers and demo can still sneak through other paths, but you either have sentries or defensive players to deal with that. Once the attackers break down the front door sentry, your team really has to be alert. If they enter the sink room, packing a lot of firepower (say a heavy/medic combo with a few others), you really have to be ready. Sentries in courtyard are easy to defend, but an uber will still make short work of them if you have a good heavy or demo (or pyro if it's just a single sentry). If the opponents just kill off this sentry and only face 1-2 more opponents, you really have a problem. They will walk freely into the base, either getting a big group picking up the intel or causing havoc from behind for a lot of your players. Therefore, couryard, if attacked, often becomes a focal point of your team. Another thing is that scouts have quite an interesting role in that they can pick up the intel alone. A team can slack on defense (have less engies or forward sentries) to be more offensive, but if they do, sometimes scouts slip through. You need a coordinated effort to avoid this. Often you will report if a scout slips through balcony or courtyard. Once the intel has been picked up, it's important to cover both spiral and straight adequately and adapt to the moves that the enemies make. The attacking team will often coordinate as well, and players like Se7en migth jump up balcony and cause havoc at the right time, drawing just enough attention to allow the guys with the intel to escape. Another element in this is that the primary spawn area is not something that you can ignore as an attacker. You either have to go through or by it to capture the intel. Therefore, you will often see spawn camping. While newbies frown upon this, it's a valid and sometimes necessary tactic. A good team will often break such camping quickly because they coordinate their efforts as well as info each other about the situation. Often, a good team will have a player coming from another position and taking down the campers at a favourable angle, but will also make sure not to run out of spawn randomly, but coordinate their firepower. A good pyro can force a heavy/medic combo camping spawn into an unfavourable angle, but won't even be able to ran towards them alone.
  

There are several other aspects that add to the teamplaying, but the abose are perhaps the most essential. Basically, there are just a lot of ways to fight out the map. Sentries rarely just because a big mass that defend a chokepoint, but can be important if different strategic positions. No matter how good you are, some points will just be really hard to break if you don't bring adequate attackers. Therefore, a team will often play off its momentum, and for a while, the team that's being dominated will adjust into a defensive posture until they get a breakthrough and can establish a proper offensive position.

There are also a few elements that detract from teamplay and can cause 2Fort to turn into just another predictable spam-map, with slow pace and inflexible fronts. One thing is sticky camping. Since it's so effective, you can quite easily hold down a position together with a sentry. Sure, good enough opponents will slowly break through this camping, but often too slowly to advance much further, and they will eventually be spammed to death. If one team plays too defensively and you'll be spammed to death in the lobby, stickies can really be the nail in the coffin. Another thing that ruins the map is snipers. Often, you can have some fun action across the bridge and some back and forth fights, but snipers often cut out that action. They don't really participate much in the game, but simply stay in the same position, picking off all the opponents without a fight. There are times where snipers will ensure that no one enters bridge. Other times, I have seen play with no snipers, and it often leads to great play. Suddenly, both teams have more offensive resources, which will learn to multi-pronged attacks, huge fights with many facets. You have a really tought defense on your hand and a few well-placed sentries would be enough. If you manage this though fight and defend successfully, often your team can catch that moment and go on offense yourselves. Even better if you have spies and scouts causing havoc in the opponents base by picking up the intel unexpectedly or destroying sentries in vital positions, leading to even more tense and complex situations. Since snipers are such a scourge to this map, some soldiers do everyone a favour and try to camp the balcony of the opponents. Soldiers camping balcony or spawn can really be easy to break, but a good soldier will make sure he stays alive long enough to make the snipers tired of dying all the time. Either you manage to neutralize the snipers, getting some proper fighting across bridge, or you force them to change class.

As with many other maps, it's much less fun to play 2Fort if you don't have 15-16 players on each team. It becomes to "loose" and random. Say, there are ten players on each team. You have four players dying in a fight middle and five others attacking. That leaves just one player to defend, allowing the opponents to easily pick up and escape with the intel, if they happen to be attacking. You need enough player to fill out the different roles. Being a team without medics or engineers can really be a bitch. More often, people will make sure to fill out the engineer spots, making sure there are no more and no less than 2-3 engineers. People will sometimes go medic as well if there are no medics, but if happens more often that one or both team are lacking medics, having one or less. When you have 16 players, you are also guaranteed to have 4-5 players that can deal enough damage to break through sentries without a medic. Most often, that's heavies and demo, but soldier can also break the sentries given the right circumstances. In 2Fort, it crucial to kill off the opponent medics to halt their advance. The most powerful combo in this map (and most other maps) is heavy/medic. Often, someone will give their life to quickly kill the medic. A heavy without his medic if fairly useless if the defenders are prepared for him. If we compare to Dustbowl, for instance, you often won't get to see the medic because you always fight around a single corner or choke point, meaning that the medics only enter open combat once they are uber ready. Once your opponents enter your front door, there are so many ways to take they down. You can jump into the corridor from the secondary spawn and catch them from behind at the right moment. You can come from your top of sewers or from bridge and bring some crossfire to give them a really hard time, often making it near impossible for them to protect the fragile medic. You can kill them from above on grill while they are otherwise occupied. Grill camping is extremely powerful, and it can bring the map to a halt, but it's rarely employed unless a team is really under pressure. Only people like that wierd Awo kid or Brano (while watching Eurosport) can stay on grill and camp it for hours. Once again, this adds another instance of teamplay, where a good soldier can rocket jump un on grill, keeping it clear, making sure no one can jump down from there or spam from there. Thus, you can keep the medics safe until the attack grou reaches courtyard, at which point you proceed from grill to spawn (AKA hayroom) to lay down distractionary fire, kill of sentries or to slip in and pick up intel to quickly ecape through courtyard with it while your team is holding it down.

Another element, which Oli mentions, is countering ubers. Granted, this is not unique for 2Fort either, but often a team will lay down cover fire for the sentries. So, either you spent the uber trying to kill off the players who are defending it or you wait and kill off the sentry. Often, the latter will get you killed, but when you succeed, you will often get a good foothold in the opponent base. Like on Dustbowl, a good pyro call also cancel out a normal uber with some good airblasting, but because of how the map it built, attack groups will stay closer together, often meaning that there will be other players to deal with that pyro. Instead, you have to be more creative to pin down or distract the attackers if they have an uber in hand as well as superior firepower. It never works like it does on Dustbowl, where it can often be a pattern of: uber → attacking team advances to next place → uber → attacking team weakens defenses → uber → attacking team breaks through. In 2Fort, übers can be either useless or all-important, and you have much less of a guarantee of success. You often see situations where ubers and courter-übers are carefully timed and calculated by both teams.

I do want to add that my experiences are based on the UK 2Fort server. The times where I played on the East Coast 2Fort server, there seemed to be a little less teamplay because of lower skill level, a propensity for snipers, more spammy classes and more ego-centred players.

[Possum 10,776]

I would disagree tha the action on Dustbowl is empty. Yes, I frequent theDB 24/7 server because I enjoy the action, but I have had somepretty epic games there as well.

The problem with 2fort in pubs is that it doesn't suit the classes I like to play, and teamwork on pubs can be hard to come by. I guess one of the problems is that I learned most of my CTF skills in good ol' UT, which is so much faster paced. Perhaps this is why I enjoy Turbine a lot more.

[Asjo 90]

Turbine can certainly be fun as well, but it's still too simple and spammy for my tastes. You can stuff all the players in middle to spam at each other, but before that even happens one team has to break through all the sentries of the other team. So, it devolved into a simply fight of übers vs sentries, being quite predictable and one-sided. That said, it's very action-filled (and in a less choke-pointy way than Dustbowl) and a few of the areas of the map are quite fun to fight in once the sentries are down (stairs, around containers and that corner that leads into the enemy base where the intel is).

There can be epic games in Dustbowl, no doubt, but I've never felt it reach the heights of a good game on 2Fort. And no matter how good it is, it's still too similar to what you've done before - at least once you've tried a map that allows for more variation

I'm not sure how you mean 2Fort doesn't suit your classes. From what I can see, the top3 classes you've played, that being heavy, medic and scout are all among the most popular on 2Fort. Sure, there will be times where scouts will have to do their thing in and around sewers because courtyard and spawn are too well covered, but there's always a place for them. Heavies often play a pivotal role because of their stable, breakthrough firepower and medics are as crucial as on any map, often getting to be in the middle of the tactical play (if they have a bit of understanding for the game, a least). Soldiers are really important for their flexibility, often being the only ones who can make it across bridge if opponents or holding it down well or being the ones who can rocket rocket jump up somewhere to pick up intel (it often is left on grill) or rocket jump back into base to defend.

[- Oli - 1,121]

jeeeeez WOW too much writing. i'm not reading that sorry xD

[Se7en 10,762]

When Asjo says "the joys of 2Fort" he clearly means me. You are excused. Carry on.