Steak Wrapped Bacon

[arshaven 2]

Glad to see more spam here from lotus members.

[Awptimus Prime 297]

lawl, i love steak's troll .

but trolls do like other trolls

booh...

[DEATH STRIKE 573]

So a Perm ban for trolling is now a ban for ban evading.....after 2 years....wtf. A little late on that call.....we must a NFL refs calling the shots (joke).

[Simon982 2]

Yes, I am in-Steam friends with Steak Wrapped Bacon.

I do not have a vested interested in this. However, I am extremely disappointed with the logic and decision of his ban. He was banned for allegedly trolling a Lotus clan recruit, and because of a VAC-ban on another account, his permaban is reaffirmed.

Disclosure: I started a second Steam account and purchased Team Fortress 2 for the purpose of doubling my item drop rate. Having multiple accounts is commonplace for Steam players, especially for Team Fortress 2 players (shout out to DEATH STRIKE). Having a second account does not make Steak Wrapped Bacon guilty of evading a ban. And a VAC-ban does not mean he was "hacking" on a Lotus clan server. There is no proof of that.

You wanted an explanation and he gave you one: that he shared that account with other friends, and someone else accrued a VAC-ban. This must have been the reason he was allowed to play on Lotus still. But now that his permaban is pending, everyone brings up a moot point again. Does double-jeopardy not apply?

I'd write a lengthier argument in support of Steak Wrapped Bacon but I have real life problems like work tomorrow morning. So I'll leave you with bullet points I want to make:

• Did Steak Wrapped Bacon hack on a Lotus clan server? If so, is there any demo proof?
  
• Does having multiple Steam accounts with one VAC-banned, make one "evading a Lotus clan ban"?
  
• Is he protected from double jeopardy, for having a VAC-banned account that was accounted for with a reasonable explanation?
  
• At what level does disparaging remarks rise to the level of trolling?
  
• What is an appropriate punishment for trolling?
  

I'd also like to point out something that Krash wrote:

I am so over this. From the way i see it, is that this person could have just been calm and realized that hey, I'm evading a ban; Maybe i shouldn't attract attention to myself. So his story doesn't really make sense about turning over a new leaf and 'this other person' using his account before.

If his previous account was banned, and his current account was just banned mid-game without explanation, how would he go about returning to Lotus Clan without attracting attention to himself? He has to submit an unban request, in which his previous account would undoubtedly resurface.

And seriously, all this just to play on a clan's open Team Fortress 2 server. I'm ashamed that I'm worked up over an unban request for someone else. The point of a game is to have fun, not sit through a Spanish Inquisition. If you are all going to assume that he's guilty until he proves himself innocent, he's better off playing on a more respectable server that treats pubbers impartially. I have lost respect for Lotus and will no longer play here, regardless of this outcome.

[DEATH STRIKE 573]

Yes, I am in-Steam friends with Steak Wrapped Bacon.

I do not have a vested interested in this. However, I am extremely disappointed with the logic and decision of his ban. He was banned for allegedly trolling a Lotus clan recruit, and because of a VAC-ban on another account, his permaban is reaffirmed.

Disclosure: I started a second Steam account and purchased Team Fortress 2 for the purpose of doubling my item drop rate. Having multiple accounts is commonplace for Steam players, especially for Team Fortress 2 players (shout out to DEATH STRIKE). Having a second account does not make Steak Wrapped Bacon guilty of evading a ban. And a VAC-ban does not mean he was "hacking" on a Lotus clan server. There is no proof of that.

You wanted an explanation and he gave you one: that he shared that account with other friends, and someone else accrued a VAC-ban. This must have been the reason he was allowed to play on Lotus still. But now that his permaban is pending, everyone brings up a moot point again. Does double-jeopardy not apply?

I'd write a lengthier argument in support of Steak Wrapped Bacon but I have real life problems like work tomorrow morning. So I'll leave you with bullet points I want to make:

• Did Steak Wrapped Bacon hack on a Lotus clan server? If so, is there any demo proof?
  
• Does having multiple Steam accounts with one VAC-banned, make one "evading a Lotus clan ban"?
  
• Is he protected from double jeopardy, for having a VAC-banned account that was accounted for with a reasonable explanation?
  
• At what level does disparaging remarks rise to the level of trolling?
  
• What is an appropriate punishment for trolling?
  

I'd also like to point out something that Krash wrote:

If his previous account was banned, and his current account was just banned mid-game without explanation, how would he go about returning to Lotus Clan without attracting attention to himself? He has to submit an unban request, in which his previous account would undoubtedly resurface.

And seriously, all this just to play on a clan's open Team Fortress 2 server. I'm ashamed that I'm worked up over an unban request for someone else. The point of a game is to have fun, not sit through a Spanish Inquisition. If you are all going to assume that he's guilty until he proves himself innocent, he's better off playing on a more respectable server that treats pubbers impartially. I have lost respect for Lotus and will no longer play here, regardless of this outcome.

[Taigos 183]

• Did Steak Wrapped Bacon hack on a Lotus clan server? If so, is there any demo proof?
  It doesnt matter where he hacked, the fact is he has/had an alt account that was VACed.
  
• Does having multiple Steam accounts with one VAC-banned, make one "evading a Lotus clan ban"?
  It certainly doesn't make you look innocent.
  
• Is he protected from double jeopardy, for having a VAC-banned account that was accounted for with a reasonable explanation?
  His second account is not accounted for. He claims someone else used it yet offers no proof other then his word. Any court of law would not up hold that kinda statement as proof of innocence.
  
• At what level does disparaging remarks rise to the level of trolling?
  It is usually a per admin basis
  
• What is an appropriate punishment for trolling?
  Again usually the banning admin makes the judgement. Least from what i have seen here.
  

[bukowski 1,203]

Yes, but it is relevant to this ban request. No? And besides, there isn't anywhere else to do it. This way it is documented and on record. Transparency.

Well, man... it seems like it's been known for a long time that he was VAC banned on another account and no one did anything about it, so it seems like he got a not guilty verdict. And if you're now sentencing him because of a case previously forgiven VAC banning then you are violating the 5th Amendment's double jeopardy statute, man:

"…nor shall any person be subject for the same offence [sic] to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb…"

Don't get me wrong, I think Steak is an asshole and I dislike him sometimes, but that's just because I don't like competition on who the biggest asshole is on the server. But he's not that bad and he's a good player, and so is Mariposa and I fear she won't play east coast anymore because of this, so, you know, Death Strike of all people forgave him and is asking for the ban to be lessened, so let's just all play and have fun, and not lose a bunch of players because of one guy who isn't all that bad.

Hopefully that makes sense and uhh... I know this probably isn't the best place to ask, but, Hubris, can you send me that link to your boobs again?

[Nano 7,892]

This player has been perma banned for ban evasion on multiple STEAM ID's and multiple IP addresses. This decision is final.

[seraphinianus 6]

The general thrust of arguments in support of Steak seems to be that 1) his previous VAC-Ban should be irrelevant (contrary to stated Lotus rules); 2) whatever he did wrong should continue to be ignored because it was ignored for a long time; 3) East Coast might "lose a bunch of players" if he is banned (see also my post expressing concern that Steak would receive special treatment because of his connections to the server).

Edit: None of this is relevant any more.

[DEATH STRIKE 573]

The general thrust of arguments in support of Steak seems to be that 1) his previous VAC-Ban should be irrelevant (contrary to stated Lotus rules); 2) whatever he did wrong should continue to be ignored because it was ignored for a long time; 3) East Coast might "lose a bunch of players" if he is banned (see also my post expressing concern that Steak would receive special treatment because of his connections to the server).

Edit: None of this is relevant any more.

so why post?

[arshaven 2]

Well, I had fun. Money donated and time spent wasn't wasted. Don't think I will be coming back, since you don't want me haha. One thing I will say, I am sad to see the change in staff. One person seemed to speak for lotus, Proloser, and he seemed to speak for all of you. Don't let him do that. Afro I enjoyed playing with you because you are what a lotus member should be, a person with experience and thick skin. I can't say the same thing for some of your recruits, Sexy King in particular. Goodnight and God bless.

Please lock this thread, since it seems I will be permanently banned.

[No longer a Sexy King:^) 5,592]

Well, I had fun. Money donated and time spent wasn't wasted. Don't think I will be coming back, since you don't want me haha. One thing I will say, I am sad to see the change in staff. One person seemed to speak for lotus, Proloser, and he seemed to speak for all of you. Don't let him do that. Afro I enjoyed playing with you because you are what a lotus member should be, a person with experience and thick skin. I can't say the same thing for some of your recruits, Sexy King in particular. Goodnight and God bless.

Please lock this thread, since it seems I will be permanently banned.

LOL so now it's me fault? I come to the server you play, you troll me and it's my fault?!

*Slow Clap*

I didn't even requested a ban, but after i posted a thread to discuss what happened, a bunch of ppl said you were a troll for a long time, it wasn't my decision, it was council and staff decision.

[Hawkear 97]

I beat Kimbo one day and all he said were racial slurs and shit about faggots in the sewers...now that's just plain rude ain't it? I suggest keeping anyone who supports him away as well as blocking that guys IP while your at it, that guy is seriously annoying.

[seraphinianus 6]

so why post?

Because I had already posted and then saw the final word...

Oh and Steak re: your self-righteous going-away speech, East Cost was already talking about how they were happy you were gone last night.

[Taigos 183]

Look the admins already made the final decision, no reason to keep going at each other here. Take it to pm's.

Admins any chance we can get this locked and be done with this mess.

[- Oli - 1,121]

LOL so now it's me fault? I come to the server you play, you troll me and it's my fault?!

*Slow Clap*

I didn't even requested a ban, but after i posted a thread to discuss what happened, a bunch of ppl said you were a troll for a long time, it wasn't my decision, it was council and staff decision.

Just to inform you, he only posted saying you trolled him. It was the discussion and support for the ban afterwards that has led to the ban.

Afterwards many recruits and members (and Staff) saw the chat log and decided you deserved a permanent ban. It was raised that you also had a previous account that was VAC banned for aimhacking.

I recall - 10 people who agreed with posts wanting you banned in the original thread. And others who didn't agree or disagree but said you are known for trolling or being abusive.

Hope you have fun trolling somewhere else.

Nothing more I can see will contribute to this, especially since he is now banned so lock the thread please.

Edited September 27, 2012 by - Oli -

[totally not bees 0]

I can't even be fucked to reply individually to all the stupid posts in the last couple of pages, but essentially the recruiting process is seriously fucked if these are the kind of members Lotus are ending up with.

The logic to this ban is so hilariously flawed and my previous comment about it being because of a butthurt child still applies. Massively.

If trolling really does get people perm banned, why not ban half the regulars? To say "oh but it's because an account he used years ago was VAC banned and we have no proof it was him playing or that he was on lotus servers at the time" is just pants-on-head retarded.

inb4 ban from butthurt admins.

[Nano 7,892]

You should really be careful who you support so blindly.

We have been investigating and now have no doubt that Steak was an alt. IP logs have confirmed it. Steak was also an alt of a current now former Admin/Member (Mars), who has also been dealt with accordingly.

I hope everyone in this thread who blindly took a side without looking at the facts can take a deep breath and think next time before roundly supporting someone when you don't have anything but an opinion to back up your statements.