Could Someone Explain Why

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

Just curious, but what started this whole "we don't like to actually play the game on certain maps" thing? On most Lotus servers, I join the server, play the game, try to win, wash rinse and repeat. Most of the other players do the same, and the only time someone doesn't like it is when their team is sucking and losing horribly, in which case they might whine about spawn camping or team stacking, but never about the other players actually trying to win. When I join a hightower server, however, it typically goes like this:

Me: [join server]

Me: [start pushing the cart]

Someone: "don't cap"

Me: [spot a bunch of enemies in a room and kill them all]

Someone: [tries to votekick me and fails]

Me: [keep pushing the cart]

Someone: "lol try hard demo/pyro/whateverI'mPlaying"

Someone: "stop pushing the cart"

Me: [push the cart and win]

Me: "try harder and stop me"

Someone: "you don't understand hightower stupid noob"

(After 15 minutes of this, the dick grabbers usually quit and other people join and play resumes as normal)

I guess they're right. I don't understand the purpose to standing around grabbing dicks in a tiny room. I've been told that hightower is supposed to be about death match (even though it is clearly pl_hightower), I've been told that it's supposed to be about "just goofing around and having fun," even though it clearly has a cart that causes you to win if you push it, and enemies who cause you to gain points when you kill them. And just about every time I play on it, at least 3 or 4 people try to kick me after accusing me of "try harding" (I think they mean trying hard, but apparently the public education system is failing these kids). I'm not sure where this "too cool to play" attitude came from, or why it is prevalent on this particular payload map. I don't see the fun of, as I witnessed last time, 4 red guys and 5 blue guys standing around in the little health pack room doing taunts for 10 minutes straight. I don't think I will ever understand that.

In any case, I'm not going to stop playing this FPS like an FPS, and since winning is fun for me, I don't intend to stop trying to win. I take "try hard" as a compliment (I can just imagine these people when they're all grown up bragging to employers in interviews about how little they try). But I was just curious if someone could explain to me why hightower is the map of choice for retards who belong in World of Warcraft to gather together and circle jerk each other?

[Possum 10,776]

[Jabberwock 273]

Alas, I believe that some people prefer to keep the game going and simply kill the other team, especially if their team is..."stacked."

[Reisen 1,973]

It's Kids thinking that egshooters are funnier if you don't shoot people and acting slightly gay beeing like "I am super nice and i like you ^^" to get more friends on Steam. it's a phase, ignore them. If they manage to kick you, you can always suggest a ban on the forums, since we don't tolerate their behavior if they think they can take over the server and kick people because they play the Game. If they do that on non Lotus servers, just leave the server. there are plenty of servers where you don't have to deal with that

[Asjo 90]

Once you've played a map enough, you know that some things simply "break" the map, and make them less fun to play. You have to accept that if a majority has reached such an understanding. On Hightower, for instance, I know of two such things. Mini-sentries and heavies on the cart. On a low-skilled server, heavies on the cart can kill everyone else before the even get close due to the wide open area. Yes, heavies can sometimes be shot by snipers, but then again, snipers are the bane of every map, so let's hope that you don't have too many of those. Mini-sentries on Hightower are terrible because on mini-sentry basically hits anything, reducing the combat possible around the map since people cannot move around without randomly getting shot my mini-sentries. Those two things are basically silly to do on most servers since they are "overpowered" and don't really make the map very fun to play.

Another example would be from 2Fort, the map that I play most. After having played this map enough, I realized it was by far the best Team Fortress 2 map. No other map offer as complex, various and yet constantly engaging gameplay. Yet, if someone decides to be a sticky demo and camp the most important entrances, this can break the map. It slows down the play, discourages offense, and turns the map into a lot of people spamming, never daring to attack. Likewise, if one team dominates, but won't attack, the fact that they have too many snipers on the bridge can discourage any counter-attacks. Once against, due to the nature of snipers, who kill opponents without any fight, this can turn the action pretty pointless and ruin many of the exciting dynamics that this map produces at its best.

Granted, the above might not be relevant for the situation you describe, depend on precisely what happened. But I think it's important that you learn to respect how some things might break certain maps and that people aren't necessarily "dickgrabbers" for pointing it out - they've simply learned to appreciate the map in another manner than you.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

@Asjo: Two things. First, I fail to see how any tactic "breaks" a map when both teams are fully capable of employing the most effective tactic for a given map. At best, it eliminates the ability to play a particular class effectively, but that's what strategizing is all about. There is no unbeatable scenario on two evenly numbered teams. Second, nobody was complaining about effective strategies the last time I was on hightower. They were literally just standing in a small room together doing taunts and chatting, not playing at all and trying to kick anyone who did play the game (unsuccessfully, because they were not the majority by any means).

Anyway, I was just wondering if there was any particular reason these occasional groups of retards like to hang out on hightower so much as opposed to any other map. Seems like they should find a server more conducive to lollygagging than Lotus's standard payload servers.

[Asjo 90]

In that case, I misunderstood you. What you refer to is known as hippieing. I detest that myself, and I'm happy to break up a crowd of hippies. This group is very self-understood and will as such react in respect to the groups "values", cursing those to break the peace. However, what you do is a great deed, killing them all and trying to get them to play. I've never really experienced hippieing on Hightower before, though - it's not really a map that seems to encourage it, since everything is so separated. When people "hippie it up" they are basically wasting a player spot, so I'm sure an admin would start to give warnings if it gets too bad and kick people if they keep at it.

To answer you questions about certain playing style and tactics that break the game. It's not that a particular team any advantage, it's simply that it prevent certain elements of play on the map. A dominant on 2Fort, with five snipers, will be able to prevent the opponents from having any presence on the bridge. However, they will never have enough attacking power to break the opponent base and get the intelligence to win. It makes the map very boring, thus "breaks it", but it doesn't make unfair. Before I realized what effect of mini-sentries on a map such as Hightower, I did it happily and couldn't understand why people would complain. Nowaways, I would feel like somewhat of a dick if I did it, since I know it hardly ever makes the map more interesting or exciting to play, almost always less. In the same way, I would feel terrible about sticky abusing on a map like 2Fort, while it would be quite a natural thing to do on a spam-map like Dustbowl, where it's sometimes the only way to break a chokepoint with three centries nestled up.

[Barbaro 466]

There are two kinds of people in regular TF2 Game-play.

Those who came to party, kill maggots, cap the Intel, push leetle cart, have fun and win.

Then you have those who have nothing better to do in their lives, than be a waste of human material, bandwidth and server slots.

Unfortunately, somehow, online, people become too stupid to think for themselves, and act...I think it's instinct. If everyone stops 'playing' and starts doing something distracting, they fall for it, and it spreads, like aids in the air. I'm not so sure why this is....it takes me, on average, 15 seconds and a life or two to study someone's behavior, movement, and intent...then either exploit it and laugh at the results, or bulldoze my way through them.

(TL:DR, Trolls are everywhere, and spread retardedness like the plague)

[Ruby 9,039]

I can't speak for hightower, but I can speak for Harvest, since I admin there and it's a go to derping map for some people.

People come to that server to have fun and relax. For some people that's gardening, for some people that's going mittens Heavy, for some people it's demoknight or demopan.... people have various ideas of fun. Occasionally people will try to votekick someone who spams minisentries (they do break the map if the other team isn't skilled enough to deal with them), and although I won't instakick the, if the server wants them gone, there is nothing I can - or want to - do about it.

There is only one time where the entire server got together as friendly. We held the point uncapped for over 30 minutes and everyone was Heavy, we took group photos and sang idiotic songs over a dispenser. In that moment, when 22 players were playing along, I had kicked someone who was generally being a dick and would've get votekicked otherwise. I understand he had come to play a first person shooter but I think we're allowed to have a hour of shenanigans every once in a while.

So, my point is - people have various ideas of fun. Generally, the people who scream "dont push kart dis iz tdm trololo" are a vocal minority and if they want tdm they can go play Arena or KoTH. But if the entire server seems to be against you, well, we have more than one Hightower server...

[Reisen 1,973]

I like it a lot when people do "friendly" or "parties" or whatever. I kill the ever loving shit out of them!!! /heartless .

Heartless is the wrong word. i'd call it generous. you free these animals from their suffering of being useless tards

Edited March 10, 2013 by Misa-chan ♥

[Chez-Box 3,240]

Once you've played a map enough, you know that some things simply "break" the map, and make them less fun to play. You have to accept that if a majority has reached such an understanding. On Hightower, for instance, I know of two such things. Mini-sentries and heavies on the cart. On a low-skilled server, heavies on the cart can kill everyone else before the even get close due to the wide open area. Yes, heavies can sometimes be shot by snipers, but then again, snipers are the bane of every map, so let's hope that you don't have too many of those. Mini-sentries on Hightower are terrible because on mini-sentry basically hits anything, reducing the combat possible around the map since people cannot move around without randomly getting shot my mini-sentries. Those two things are basically silly to do on most servers since they are "overpowered" and don't really make the map very fun to play.

Another example would be from 2Fort, the map that I play most. After having played this map enough, I realized it was by far the best Team Fortress 2 map. No other map offer as complex, various and yet constantly engaging gameplay. Yet, if someone decides to be a sticky demo and camp the most important entrances, this can break the map. It slows down the play, discourages offense, and turns the map into a lot of people spamming, never daring to attack. Likewise, if one team dominates, but won't attack, the fact that they have too many snipers on the bridge can discourage any counter-attacks. Once against, due to the nature of snipers, who kill opponents without any fight, this can turn the action pretty pointless and ruin many of the exciting dynamics that this map produces at its best.

Granted, the above might not be relevant for the situation you describe, depend on precisely what happened. But I think it's important that you learn to respect how some things might break certain maps and that people aren't necessarily "dickgrabbers" for pointing it out - they've simply learned to appreciate the map in another manner than you.

2 fort is aweful, a few engies on each team, stale-mate, only good for a few minute drop in to make some intel runs... until they build an L3 in the intel room because I've capped their intel twice while everybody else tries to play 4 on 4 sniper, and spam the bridge

best map, hands down, is goldrush

[Climhazzard 654]

What did I just read? Every single objective game I play, I don't play for kills, I play to win. If someone says don't cap or something, I just ignore them and move on. If all people want to do is kill each other, it's their own fault for joining a CP or CTF map Do as Darwin said, and Join an Arena server

So Spagsauce, I believe you getting votekicked for actually playing the game is BS

Edited March 10, 2013 by Climhazzard

[Harlequin 2,975]

I like it a lot when people do "friendly" or "parties" or whatever. I kill the ever loving shit out of them!!! /heartless .

I love it when you kill me and say lovelingly "sorry bloody"

<3

[Corvisio 12]

I can't speak for hightower, but I can speak for Harvest, since I admin there and it's a go to derping map for some people.

People come to that server to have fun and relax. For some people that's gardening, for some people that's going mittens Heavy, for some people it's demoknight or demopan.... people have various ideas of fun. Occasionally people will try to votekick someone who spams minisentries (they do break the map if the other team isn't skilled enough to deal with them), and although I won't instakick the, if the server wants them gone, there is nothing I can - or want to - do about it.

There is only one time where the entire server got together as friendly. We held the point uncapped for over 30 minutes and everyone was Heavy, we took group photos and sang idiotic songs over a dispenser. In that moment, when 22 players were playing along, I had kicked someone who was generally being a dick and would've get votekicked otherwise. I understand he had come to play a first person shooter but I think we're allowed to have a hour of shenanigans every once in a while.

So, my point is - people have various ideas of fun. Generally, the people who scream "dont push kart dis iz tdm trololo" are a vocal minority and if they want tdm they can go play Arena or KoTH. But if the entire server seems to be against you, well, we have more than one Hightower server...

I remember it, that was a good day

Anyways, I can't understandwhy some people get a heavy and say "I'm friendly, don't kill me". It's just let another player out of the server and don't provide fun to other people in the server. Oh, and if they get killed for a player, they just insult him. This is TF2, if you wanna ingame friends (I mean, chars, not players), go and play the Sims.

Oh, and I don't know if someone told it, but... Harvest hasn't the votes activated. You can't votescramble, votekick or voteban, and this is a real problem because is too easy to get unbalanced teams or the typical gunslinger spammers. Some days ago I played with THREE gunslinger users in the same team. That can kill the game quality. I'm not talking about kick them, but if you speak with them and they just laugh and bother... Using the votekick too much can be bad, but remove it is worst, cos people take advantage of that just for ruin the game without consequences.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Corvisio

[Ruby 9,039]

Oh, and I don't know if someone told it, but... Harvest hasn't the votes activated. You can't votescramble, votekick or voteban, and this is a real problem because is too easy to get unbalanced teams or the typical gunslinger spammers. Some days ago I played with THREE gunslinger users in the same team. That can kill the game quality. I'm not talking about kick them, but if you speak with them and they just laugh and bother... Using the votekick too much can be bad, but remove it is worst, cos people take advantage of that just for ruin the game without consequences.

I've made our main plugin developer aware of this already, and I'm sure he and Mana will fix it soon

[Corvisia 774]

Aw, I'm dat proud Madame Dixie pyro <3

Anyway, I usually don't care about the "friendly people" except for when they start to do (even more) non-sense things. For example, these friendly heavies who just repeat in aeternum "bi*** plz don't kill meh i'm friendly!!1oneoneone" and then they enter the point and stay there doing nothing but still pretending that you don't kill them.

[Reisen 1,973]

Aw, I'm dat proud Madame Dixie pyro <3

Anyway, I usually don't care about the "friendly people" except for when they start to do (even more) non-sense things. For example, these friendly heavies who just repeat in aeternum "bi*** plz don't kill meh i'm friendly!!1oneoneone" and then they enter the point and stay there doing nothing but still pretending that you don't kill them.

I never appreciate them. 1 Civillian = -1 People on your Team. Sometimes it goes like Blu 9 and Red 5. That can be really annoying if you want to play the game

[Corvisia 774]

I never appreciate them. 1 Civillian = -1 People on your Team. Sometimes it goes like Blu 9 and Red 5. That can be really annoying if you want to play the game

So fucking true. I don't get it. Overall, I can deal with it if it's something punctual, but not for 45min reading, also, all their cries about you killing them. So annoying.

I usually don't complain, tho, because I try to avoid every kind of disputes as long as I can, but, oh God... xD

[Reisen 1,973]

So fucking true. I don't get it. Overall, I can deal with it if it's something punctual, but not for 45min reading, also, all their cries about you killing them. So annoying.

I usually don't complain, tho, because I try to avoid every kind of disputes as long as I can, but, oh God... xD

I remember myself when I was little that I wanted to co-op with my sis in games even though we were supposed to attack each other.

The big difference between civils in tf2 and me back then:

- We actually had no internet/Nobody was annoyed by it.

- We didn't play an FSK 18 game without actually doing what you are supposed to do in these kinds of games.

- Most important: We had "real" fun. not this imaginary thing they call fun. After the 400th time of sitting in a corner eating sandvich and doing nothing, you cannot seriously tell me it is fun. :/

[Se7en 10,762]

I see a lot of free frags and tears.

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

Paaaaaaaaaaarty

lol

There were some good parites on 2fort

Will put few screen shots later

Lately I´m overload with parties and don´t attend them. Mostly I just avoid that part of map (sewers mostly). But o boy we used to have great parties.. then we ended up in ban section boooo Because 31 player didn´t wanna *play game normlay*

[Se7en 10,762]

I think the problem wasn't that people didn't want to play the game normally, it was more along the lines of people who `partied` vote kicked /vote banned the ones that tried to play, you know killing people and such.

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

well, 30 against 1

who was disruptive? those 30 or that 1 ahaha

[Se7en 10,762]

Those 30.

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

So kick those 30 and leave that 1 to play