The Opinion Of An Outside Source

[-MW- 5]

So I started a thread on reddit/r/tf2/ to get the publics opinion on the Lotus Clans servers.

There were many responses, but I feel they are best summed up with this one:

If you read the threads in question, usually people will be airing out their specific grievances. This thread, for example, has a lot of stories about donators abusing the privileges afforded to them, which gives players who do not donate to LotusClan feel like it's a Pay-to-Win situation. TF2 is notable for being a free-to-play game that is most decidedly not pay-to-win, which is a very good thing, and players understandably do not like the idea of servers handing out advantages in exchange for cash. This problem is much, MUCH worse on nighteam servers (generally considered some of the worst of TF2 servers available) but that doesn't make it acceptable.

A few other common complaints are:

• Low skill

This is fine for some of us who like to play casually, but a lot of good players get bored with stomping lower-skilled opponents. Also, less-skilled players often seek more skilled opponents so they can improve their game - something that won't happen as much playing with the generally lower skill level of LotusClan regulars.

• Bots

When the server's population starts to dwindle, Lotus will put in bots to fill slots. Although Valve fixed it so bots don't appear in the server browser, this is annoying for people actually on the server at the time. When you're involved in the game you often don't immediately notice that the players dropping out are being replaced with bots - often using the same name as the players. This is just shady and dishonest because no one I know likes playing against bots, and LotusClan is purposely disguising the names of the bots to deceive you into staying longer.

• Popularity

LotusClan servers are really popular and have a huge, huge userbase, similar to Valve servers. This drives away a lot of hardcore players - not because it's a hipster "too mainstream" thing, but because this means LotusClan users rarely have any loyalty to a specific server. When you play regularly on a server from a group that doesn't have a million others (STAR_ and Jerma's servers, or even smaller clans like DrunkenBombers) you get a regular crowd, familiar faces, and a general feel for the server's "personality." You don't get that with LotusClan, Valve, skial, etc. LotusClan does have a few exceptions, like it's NJ 24/7 Harvest server.

These aren't reasons you should stop playing LotusClan - play what you find enjoyable. If you don't have a reason to leave LotusClan servers, don't. But these are some common issues people take up with them.

I'm not sure what to make of this, but maybe someone here can take a look through.

Link to thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1fd2rh/whats_wrong_with_lotus/

[Nano 7,892]

It's part misconception, part competition, and part history.

Truthfully Lotus wasn't always as good as it is today. We used to have less admins. Long ago we had a few practices that were standard across the board, but not well liked (bots that weren't easily distinguishable). In addition it's Reddit I love Reddit and I'm on there every day. That being said, it is very much hive mind mentality as many want Karma so they say what they think will get them upvotes. It's not bad, it just is what it is. As a result the perception takes a while to change.

There are also an abundance of lies or misunderstandings. Although we've never been premium you'll see half of the negative comments in those threads are how we give God mode, unlimited crits, and other game changing benefits to donors. This is despite the fact that our donor options are essentially the same as all our competition and are in no way game-breaking, never have been, and are easily viewable on our donor page to anyone who bothered to check. These misconceptions perpetuate, because one person says it, 20 people read it, then repeat it later, no matter if the information was wrong to begin with. Some people also run into donors who they feel abuse their powers. Instead of telling anyone or doing anything about it however, they leave and tell everyone who listens that the servers themselves are to blame, instead of the individuals actually doing the offending.

Finally, people usually assume the server they play on is the best, and everyone else's must be worse. As such most people have no reason to assume anything but the worst of other servers.

That being said, the tide of public opinion is changing. Every time one of these threads comes up (and I've been watching them all for about 2 years now), more and more of the thread is about people defending Lotus servers. Even in the thread from earlier this week, if you go through you will see that many of the posts aren't putting Lotus down, but defending it! This is very different than in the past.

Also, Lotus servers are popular. They are some of the most popular servers in all of TF2 (number-wise). We rank very high for quickplay traffic because the algorithms set up by Valve are designed to reward servers that don't change the player experience, which is why almost all our servers are essentially vanilla (not changed).

TL:DR: With time people will come to realize how good our servers are, and the evidence of the changing tide is already evident.

[Chez-Box 3,240]

I'd like to add, that no donator privileges that are given to donors provide any in-game advantage that could even remotely create an environment in which you "pay to win"

you get the ability to not be auto-balanced, and change your team, which is great for people who want to play with groups of friends, occasionally stacking occurs, in which case some of those low skilled players you talked about, get the chance to learn to play better.
Other than that, you get a reserve slot so you can join the servers you donated to, even when full, a colored name in game to show you are a donor, and round end immunity so if your team loses you don't need to get raped while defenseless. Also the ability to call a vote to kick, ban, mute, or scramble by yourself, a VOTE, not the ability to kick or ban on your own...

No advantage in game-play what-so-ever, some people refuse to acknowledge that

[Mana 3,867]

Someone abusing the item coloring benefit? Yeah that shouldn't be happening. Are there any items that could be abused this way as well?

Most of the other stuff there either conufses us with other communities or is complete bullshit. Especially since I know that vote percentages are set to much higher than most other servers (including valve's own)

[Nano 7,892]

That is the only item I know of that does it. We have banned before for individuals that were reported using it.

[Se7en 10,762]

LOL Reddit again.

[Ruby 9,039]

I agree with Pro. Two years ago Reddit was filled with anti-Lotus comments to the level that I had decided never to play on a Lotus server (hah), but then 9 months ago I told to myself "Well, it might be worth actually checking these out instead of talking shit about them" and lo and behold, here we are today. Tides definitely seem to be changing. Of course, you can't always please everyone, but it seems that out of all the "big" TF2 groups, we're doing the best.

Also, Lena summed it up pretty well. Check my signature.

[-MW- 5]

I agree that time is moving us forward in the public opinion. I also LIKE Lotus servers. They're fun and accomidate all skill types.

But I didn't come here to start a circle jerk lol.

Why are some of our servers still saying x/24 players in a (*33) player server?

[touchmywii 1]

I agree about the damn abuse of donations..

[Se7en 10,762]

I agree that time is moving us forward in the public opinion. I also LIKE Lotus servers. They're fun and accomidate all skill types.

But I didn't come here to start a circle jerk lol.

Why are some of our servers still saying x/24 players in a (*33) player server?

Because all our servers are 24 player servers until the 25th player slot is used. Or maybe Mana just didn't get around to changing all server names.

[Krash 1,040]

Horse dongs go away, Lotus more publicly appreciated. The sad truth.

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

• Low skill

This is fine for some of us who like to play casually, but a lot of good players get bored with stomping lower-skilled opponents. Also, less-skilled players often seek more skilled opponents so they can improve their game - something that won't happen as much playing with the generally lower skill level of LotusClan regulars.

I dare anyone to join uk 2fortex33 and play against regulars.

[Nam 11]

I dare anyone to join uk 2fortex33 and play against regulars.

But US 2fort East has the best player.

[Possum 10,776]

But US 2fort East has the best player.

Never seen Sexy King on 2fort East Coast....

[bukowski 1,203]

But US 2fort East has the best player.

Truth. I just haven't been playing as much lately.

[Kitten 1,813]

But US 2fort East has the best player.

Also, most trolls.

[Nam 11]

Because I haven't played much in a while, who are these so called trolls? Easy coast still has the best players.

And bukowski, I may make a cameo appearance tonight.

[bukowski 1,203]

Because I haven't played much in a while, who are these so called trolls? Easy coast still has the best players.

And bukowski, I may make a cameo appearance tonight.

Yeah, EC definitely has the best 2fort players out there.

[Se7en 10,762]

Because I haven't played much in a while, who are these so called trolls? Easy coast still has the best players.

And bukowski, I may make a cameo appearance tonight.

Yeah, EC definitely has the best 2fort players out there.

I lold.

[bukowski 1,203]

I lold.

I'm lol'ing at your lold, brah. lolz

[Kitten 1,813]

Because I haven't played much in a while, who are these so called trolls? Easy coast still has the best players.

Well not going to name any names...

But 1). I receive frequent complaints from regulars about trolling; 2). this was the only Lotus server I was ever trolled on way back (hardcore trolled too), and I have def. seen trolling continue since then; 3). to paraphrase zoidberg's "Unban [mad]Zoidberg" group... the east coast has long been known as a haven for trolling. =P

[Asjo 90]

It seems I arrived at this thread quite late, so you'll have forgive me "upping" the thread.

Are the really any other server communities that can compete with LotusClan in terms of quality of the setup? I mean, in hope of finding other maps than 2fort that are worthwhile playing, I've been scouring the server list for other good severs that I have below 100 ping for, and the only real competitor seems to be skial (of course, there might be others outside Europe, with greater ping). Recently, I stumbled upon a set of German servers which seemed very promising, but they had fucked up setting which caused everyone to run much faster and demos to have six pipe bombs. It was all very superficial action, and the skill was so low that even the suicide pyro - that's me - got 47 kills in a row in 10-15 minutes just running around hacking everything. The obvious advantage for LotusClan seems to be the 32-player servers. This is the amount of players you need to have a public server with some proper weight behind the action and exciting swings of momentum - at least on 2fort. 24 players just seems to haphazard and doesn't have the same flow. And, of course, vanilla settings, apart from the great scoreboard that was just added recently.

Funnily, I think the "personality" of the servers, at least my favourite (2fort UK), it what adds to the attraction of the servers. I doubt I'd still be playing TF2 if it wasn't for the group of hearty regulars playing there. If I don't have other options, I'll sometimes join the skial server, and it's amazing to see the difference. I cannot help to think that there is some cultural difference in play here. On the skial 2fort server, there seems to be an apathy towards any teamplay, and I've never ever played the server where it wasn't just a sad mess of campers. As much as I complain about the 2fort UK server recently becoming more campy and having a higher amout of sticky campers, it still does not start to compare to the skial server. So, I ask myself: What makes the difference? Sure, the skill is slightly lower, but not too much. I can only imagine that the regulars who played on the 2fort UK server have created a culture where people get used to attacking and find it the more acceptable style of play. How? I'd say these could be factors:

• Teamplay: By having the desire to play together, you're also very likely to want to "create" something. You'll rarely get much joy from teamplay if you just sit in the corner play. So, encouraging teamplay means more attacking, more initiative
  
• Interaction: A lot of players on the server have been using voice communication and have opened themselves up to communicating with all the players. That means they're hard to ignore, and they'll let you know what they want or they will call you out on camping or otherwise not being willing to help your team. This would force people to be more reflective about how they play.
  
• Lead by example: I believe that a few good offensive players have come to like the server and have been able to lead by example. If someone is always attacking and is able to take out the first 2-3 opponents in the way, it's easier for the rest of the team to get the courage and push on. It seems that the mentality of a team often depends on whether they actually feel confident in the ability of their team. If they are making headway, everyone will suddenly join in, but if your team gets pushed back too easily and only one or two players linger in the enemy base, you might rather want to stay back. It's possible that they classes of the best players on the servers are a factor here. The best players I've seen on 2fort UK were soldiers, demos and medics, whereas many of the best players I've seen on the skial server are snipers, who are basically play-stoppers.

And I agree that the 2fort East Cost server is a gem for Lotus as well, although it's hard for me to appreciate fully with 100+ ping. The server is quite social and seems to have a good coherence and decent atmosphere. And even if the skill level is a bit lower, it seems people on the server find much more glory in getting the intel rather than stacking up kills from camping. So, there's always a good deal of action on there and a good flow of game. Sometimes the humor in there can be a bit trying (many Americans seem to do this thing where they try hard with something silly; "over the top" humor and "assumed weirdness"), but at the same time you certainly meet a more varied mix of personalities than you would on a European server.

The skill on the LotusClan servers might not be high, but it's certainly enough to keep me entertained. To be honest, I've generally seem much worse on other popular public server. I guess some small servers who have a very competitive core of regular players might be a lot better. However, even though I think it's fun to play, I'm happy that they types of players on 2fort UK aren't too competitive, and rather seem to focus on having a jolly time, despite playing seriously. Sometimes excess competition becomes a struggle, especially on servers where it seems to be the only measure of play or on servers where everyone is chasing stats. And I'm grateful that the LotusClan servers are some popular. After the forced temporary 24-player limit, the servers lost a lot of regular and were struggling to fill in the afternoons. For a long time 2fort UK has only seemed to fill up at around 7 PM. However, recently it seems to be filling up ever more frequently and emptying later. Which is great, if you don't want to be forced to play late evening every time.

[Se7en 10,762]

We love you too Asjo.

[Pixel 113]

Asjo, I think you made me suffer from mental relapse

[point 2,268]

Asjo, I think you made me suffer from mental relapse

U wot m8