Confusion Between Donor And Admin?

[Minia 1,211]

Hey fellas, I'm just expressing my opinion on the current and I think rather obvious issue of players on lotus servers getting confused between admins and donors. I've seen to many posts regarding admin abuse yet no admins are involved in abusing as it seems to be donators who I've seen some votekick to make room for a friend or just as laugh and sometimes voteban for no apparent reason.

Im just here to suggest there should be some way to tell the difference between a donor and an admin such as maybe a prefix or a series of lotus tags? Maybe a prefix for their names in-game idk how exactly to do it but I think something needs to be done. It's just causing pain and confusion.

Please feel free to express your opinions among this post and hopefully we can all come to a decision.

[JMaster299 654]

There is already a very easy way to tell the difference between a donor and an admin. A donor will need to initiate a Vote in order to kick, ban, or mute another player, and Admin does not. No special tag required. If someone is causing a problem and they need to initiate a Vote to try and retaliate against other players, it means they are not Admins.

The only tags currently used by Lotus are for Members and Recruits. Neither one of which grants someone donor and admin powers. Admins do not even get donor benefits and protections unless they donate for them. People can donate with out being a member or recruit and people can be admins with out being members or recruits.

[-MW- 5]

I'm totally with you on this subject. There are countless cases of players feeling there is admin abuse when it's just a donor.

Most regular players on Lotus servers know the distinction; ie: Admins will have a L | in front of their name.

There are still lots of dumb players who don't, though. This leads to much confusion.

I have actually said the same thing once before, however it was through email. I think there needs to be a distinctive look for admins.

My vote goes for an L-A tag, or something along those lines. Make it easy to identify in game and just on a list of players.

[- Mike - 2,728]

Donors normally make use of the color name feature. Whereas admins can be fairly plain hidden.

[fever 9,884]

Problem is if you mark them L-A | that is effectively a different clan tag...its the clans "brand" so we shouldn't change that (IMO). Maybe you could add [ADMIN] but then I can imagine they would not get a moments peace whilst trying to play a game and would be dragged into every petty argument. I think leave it as is. I for one have never seen any donors abusing their powers, although I know others say they have on this forum.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

When I first started playing on Lotus servers, I confused donors for admins too. For a passerby, it's easy to confuse the two.

It's nice for admins to be able to fly incognito (not to regulars, obviously), and not be pestered by randoms for trivial things while playing, HOWEVER, maybe there can be a reserved tag you can put in your name if you want to be identifiable as an admin, perhaps while responding to !calladmin requests or something.

As far as mistaking donors for admins, I think the major cause of that is the colored names. A HUGE number of players think different color name = admin. Not sure how much it would upset donors if they lost name colors though. Personally, I only donated to escape autobalance/scramble so I could play on my fiance's team.

In any case, as it stands right now, it is very difficult for non-regulars to identify an admin if they need one, and it'd be nice to be able to give them a better answer than "it's the guy who can kick people without voting," especially if the admin isn't kicking anyone right then.

[James 279]

I agree easily confused

I get confused for an admin in the arena server to much just because I am a recruit ><

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

L or L-A... I don´t see difference since some players mix donors with admins no matter if they wear tag.

But truth to be told, I needed to ask admin something today and I was confused who the hell is admin on my friends list x) So I was randomly spamming my L | friends asking them are they admin lol.

But if players aren´t bother with tag and they mix donors with admins, I don´t see much solution there but the tag that would be something like: I am admin.. which is lil bit stupid ><

[Minia 1,211]

There is already a very easy way to tell the difference between a donor and an admin. A donor will need to initiate a Vote in order to kick, ban, or mute another player, and Admin does not. No special tag required. If someone is causing a problem and they need to initiate a Vote to try and retaliate against other players, it means they are not Admins.

The only tags currently used by Lotus are for Members and Recruits. Neither one of which grants someone donor and admin powers. Admins do not even get donor benefits and protections unless they donate for them. People can donate with out being a member or recruit and people can be admins with out being members or recruits.

You seem to be ignoring the fact we still get too many complaints with people claiming admin abuse when it is donor abuse. There is a problem and so far from most replies we agree that something needs to put a gap between Admin and Donor. I wouldn't remove coloured names but I would encourage that admins should maybe have a tag or icon by their name on the leaderboards to identify them as admins.

People may be able to tell they are not admins as they have to votekick or ban but it does not stop lotus getting complaints and people getting confused. People are just not noticing what you're stating here.

[JMaster299 654]

You seem to be ignoring the fact we still get too many complaints with people claiming admin abuse when it is donor abuse. There is a problem and so far from most replies we agree that something needs to put a gap between Admin and Donor. I wouldn't remove coloured names but I would encourage that admins should maybe have a tag or icon by their name on the leaderboards to identify them as admins.

People may be able to tell they are not admins as they have to votekick or ban but it does not stop lotus getting complaints and people getting confused. People are just not noticing what you're stating here.

I am not ignoring anything. Admins do not need to use the Vote function to take action against players. This is not something unique for Lotus. Go on any server an Admins can take action with out having to use some type of Vote. But every single non-Admin on the server, donor and non-donor, must use the Vote system to take action against another player. It's a very clear and obvious distinction. The only benefit donors get over non-donors is they don't need 3 people to start the vote, but the vote still has to happen and it still has to pass the majority requirement for the action to go through.

People who think someone is an Admin just because they started a Vote won't be helped just because Admins get special tags. No matter what tag is used those same people will still make the same mistake. I can't speak for all Admins, but back in the day when I was an admin for a couple of CS:CZ servers we did not use any tags because we did not want people to know we were admins. People who like to cause trouble will some times be smart enough to behave themselves if they knew an Admin is around. This can prevent Admins from witnessing bad behavior or hacks first hand. That in turn can limit the Admins ability to police the servers.

Also, as I pointed out, someone can be an admin with out being a clan member. The L tag, no matter what is included with it, is reserved for clan members and recruits only. It is true that most admins are clan members or end up becoming clan members, but it is not required that you be a clan member to become a Lotus Admin.

[Minia 1,211]

I am not ignoring anything. Admins do not need to use the Vote function to take action against players. This is not something unique for Lotus. Go on any server an Admins can take action with out having to use some type of Vote. But every single non-Admin on the server, donor and non-donor, must use the Vote system to take action against another player. It's a very clear and obvious distinction. The only benefit donors get over non-donors is they don't need 3 people to start the vote, but the vote still has to happen and it still has to pass the majority requirement for the action to go through.

People who think someone is an Admin just because they started a Vote won't be helped just because Admins get special tags. No matter what tag is used those same people will still make the same mistake. I can't speak for all Admins, but back in the day when I was an admin for a couple of CS:CZ servers we did not use any tags because we did not want people to know we were admins. People who like to cause trouble will some times be smart enough to behave themselves if they knew an Admin is around. This can prevent Admins from witnessing bad behavior or hacks first hand. That in turn can limit the Admins ability to police the servers.

Also, as I pointed out, someone can be an admin with out being a clan member. The L tag, no matter what is included with it, is reserved for clan members and recruits only. It is true that most admins are clan members or end up becoming clan members, but it is not required that you be a clan member to become a Lotus Admin.

This isn't about espionage this is about getting people to know who are donators and who are not, dont have to say who is an admin but we at the minimum must have a way to be able to tell that someone is a donator, not an admin.

And I don't recall me saying that admins are only lotus members/recruits.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Minia

[JMaster299 654]

This isn't about espionage this is about getting people to know who are donators and who are not, dont have to say who is an admin but we at the minimum must have a way to be able to tell that someone is a donator, not an admin.

And I don't recall me saying that admins are only lotus members/recruits.

Again, you can tell that someone is a donator, and not an Admin, by the simple fact that they will need to use the Vote system when an Admin does not. The distinction can not be any more clear.

I never said that you said that Admins are only members and recruits. But what I did say was tags are resevered for members and recruits only. So using tags would not be a good way to identify admins. Plus, as I pointed out, if someone can't tell that someone is not an Admin by the fact that they had to use the vote system, then giving them a tag won't help those people.

About all you could do is reserve one specific name color for Admins and don't allow donors to have access to it. But again any form of publicly identifying Admins can negatively affect the Admins' ability to do their job.

God example, someone use !calladmin because someone on the server is causing trouble. The person causing the problem either sees the admin tag or sees that the person who just joined the server has the special admin only name color in chat. That person causing trouble simply stops misbehaving while the admin is there or simply jumps to another server. The admin never witnesses that person doing something wrong so no action is taken, even though that person had been breaking the server rules before the admin showed up.

[Mana 3,867]

There is already a very easy way to tell the difference between a donor and an admin. A donor will need to initiate a Vote in order to kick, ban, or mute another player, and Admin does not. No special tag required. If someone is causing a problem and they need to initiate a Vote to try and retaliate against other players, it means they are not Admins.

Also on most other servers (valve's included) anyone can start a vote immediately. Well you know in that case everyone on any server that allows voting is an admin.

Even with our pre-vote requirement there are still people who think those are admins...

Adding a new tag or something similar will not stop them from thinking that those with the ability to start votes on servers/colored names are admins.

Oh and lets not forget that the chat ads state that donors have colored names... so even that apparently isn't enough for some people.

Only thing that would maybe work is a full "donor" prefix which isn't something that all donors would want. Especially those who have a longer names or longer clan tags (the prefix would cut of a long name short).

And I can guarantee that there would still be people thinking that you can donate for admin and that the donor tag actually means admin.

[JMaster299 654]

Also on most other servers (valve's included) anyone can start a vote immediately. Well you know in that case everyone on any server that allows voting is an admin.

Even with our pre-vote requirement there are still people who think those are admins...

Adding a new tag or something similar will not stop them from thinking that those with the ability to start votes on servers/colored names are admins.

Oh and lets not forget that the chat ads state that donors have colored names... so even that apparently isn't enough for some people.

Only thing that would maybe work is a donor prefix which isn't something that all donors would want. Especially those who have a long name (the prefix would cut of a long name).

And I can guarantee that there would still be people thinking that you can donate for admin and that the donor tag actually means admin.

Yeah, that's the point I have trying to get across. Anyone can start a vote but Admins do not need to start a vote to take action. The admins are listed here on the forums for anyone who cares to read the list. One possible thing that may help is to also sticky the admin list in the unban section. Most people will ignore it like they ignore so many other things but at least it's right there.

[fever 9,884]

I am not ignoring anything. Admins do not need to use the Vote function to take action against players. This is not something unique for Lotus. Go on any server an Admins can take action with out having to use some type of Vote. But every single non-Admin on the server, donor and non-donor, must use the Vote system to take action against another player. It's a very clear and obvious distinction. The only benefit donors get over non-donors is they don't need 3 people to start the vote, but the vote still has to happen and it still has to pass the majority requirement for the action to go through.

People who think someone is an Admin just because they started a Vote won't be helped just because Admins get special tags. No matter what tag is used those same people will still make the same mistake. I can't speak for all Admins, but back in the day when I was an admin for a couple of CS:CZ servers we did not use any tags because we did not want people to know we were admins. People who like to cause trouble will some times be smart enough to behave themselves if they knew an Admin is around. This can prevent Admins from witnessing bad behavior or hacks first hand. That in turn can limit the Admins ability to police the servers.

Also, as I pointed out, someone can be an admin with out being a clan member. The L tag, no matter what is included with it, is reserved for clan members and recruits only. It is true that most admins are clan members or end up becoming clan members, but it is not required that you be a clan member to become a Lotus Admin.

That sums it up nicely, +1

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

Hmm, I guess the best answer we can give to new players is "you never know, so you'd better behave just in case!" XD

[- Mike - 2,728]

Hmm, I guess the best answer we can give to new players is "you never know, so you'd better behave just in case!" XD

Santa Syndrome

[+JB. 4,800]

What about a chatmessage like the "!calladmin Info" telling you who is Admin on the Server you play on? All Players on the Servers would get a Info in the Chat who is Admin and if someone else has a Different namecolour they can either conclude that they are donor or something similar or ask.

If admins want to do hidden adminwork they can change their name before joining, I think some admins already do that.

[Kitten 1,813]

I think that all our admins (whether they're tagged L, L-r, CM, or not tagged at all) clearly identify themselves whenever there's a need or reason, so some new "tag" isn't necessary.

The problem is that the term "admin" is not some clearly defined consistent category across all tf2 servers. On some tf2 servers, maybe the power our donors have is called "admin power." Some people who randomly connect to Lotus servers through quickplay will be confused regardless when they see other players doing things that they cannot do (having colored names, etc).

However, having the - if you need an admin message - will be helpful for solving this dilemna, I suspect, because random players are having more and more contact with Lotus admins with our new system. =) In time players who frequent Lotus servers should start to figure things out.

[Chez-Box 3,240]

i can read all this right now, but what about and admin tag? i think that would be fine for any real admin to be readyily identifiabloe as and admin an dnot jsut a donor

[-MW- 5]

Also on most other servers (valve's included) anyone can start a vote immediately. Well you know in that case everyone on any server that allows voting is an admin.

Even with our pre-vote requirement there are still people who think those are admins...

Adding a new tag or something similar will not stop them from thinking that those with the ability to start votes on servers/colored names are admins.

Oh and lets not forget that the chat ads state that donors have colored names... so even that apparently isn't enough for some people.

Only thing that would maybe work is a full "donor" prefix which isn't something that all donors would want. Especially those who have a longer names or longer clan tags (the prefix would cut of a long name short).

And I can guarantee that there would still be people thinking that you can donate for admin and that the donor tag actually means admin.

Thank you for weighing in. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[Se7en 10,762]

If it ain't broken don't fix it. My 00.2.

[+Skaila 5,462]

Not to mention that most admins are donators as well (I assume anyway). I sometimes will intiate a votekick instead of a normal kick.

Or we can go back to a certain color being specific to an admin?

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

If players don´t know what L-r and L means, what colored name means... any other tag or color won´t make much difference lol

Edited October 20, 2013 by LjubicaZubica

[Minia 1,211]

Maybe have an admin list on the server? E.g use !admin and a list of current admins online and offline pops up?