Script A Bannable Offense?

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

My other post remains sound. Scripts are not hacks, but things people can do on their own Charge in the 2fort sewers as a demoman, you will turn quick

Aiming is something people can do on their own, too...

All a script does is automate actions you can do anyway in the game. If it modifies game behavior, that's where it crosses the line to a hack (and the built in system doesn't accommodate that).

...and aimbot doesn't modify game behavior, either. So is aimbotting okay?

[Climhazzard 654]

...and aimbot doesn't modify game behavior, either. So is aimbotting okay?

An aimbot helps low-lives get kills, or you can learn to play and get kills without cheats?

Most of the aimbot's I've seen, "moves" the crosshair without any direct input of the player, or maybe just a flick 'o the old wrist...its hacking

Not that this thread or what people say matters anymore, 'cuz scripts aren't cheating, and I don't think valve is gonna remove the ability to make scripts any time soon

Don't get mad, just play more and get better

Edited February 7, 2013 by Climhazzard

[- Mike - 2,728]

"Aimbots are just like scripts" - Chez-box & Spagsauce 2013

[Nam 11]

This post is most likely due to me from last night. The script I created works similar to what Pro posted but the main function is you hold down the detonate bind and fire your stickies. While holding down the key, the sticky(ies) will detonate so you don't have to constantly click the detonate bind. It follows the same detonate wait time but instead of spamming your detonate bind, you just hold it down.

I've never understood the whole mentality of using a perfectly "legal" script is cheating. The framework and commands are there, put in place by Valve, for you to use in how you see fit. Calling someone a cheater because they take out repeatable actions into one action is the funniest and almost elitist thing I've seen in a FPS game. You choose not to create/use something that will benefit you (legitimately) then so be it. What ProLoser posted does not help you aim, does not play the game for you, doesn't auto-max the power of firing a sticky, and in the end, the player playing demo still needs to be decent in order to kill someone (while attacking, not camping).

Do things smarter, not harder.

[Climhazzard 654]

I've never understood the whole mentality of using a perfectly "legal" script is cheating. The framework and commands are there, put in place by Valve, for you to use in how you see fit. Calling someone a cheater because they take out repeatable actions into one action is the funniest and almost elitist thing I've seen in a FPS game. You choose not to create/use something that will benefit you (legitimately) then so be it.

I was wondering when you were gonna show up

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

Do things smarter, not harder.

"Why learn how to do something and get some skill instead of going the easy way."

Yeah. I can see how this is better.

[Possum 10,776]

"Why learn how to do something and get some skill instead of going the easy way."

Yeah. I can see how this is better.

Kids these days, huh?

[Harlequin 2,975]

TL;DR version:

scripts are finetuning for the skilled, nothing more. they won't make a noob owning a server, like hacks do.

so stop putting these two things on one level.

Full-Version

obviously some of you guys think scripts do much more then they really do.

for instance let's view on a sapp and stab script. you don't have to switch weapons...great.. wow

plus the fact you loose control over your gameplay.

scripts are there to help you performing a better gameplay, if you just want to automate everything you'll find yourself dead all the time. if used wrong you harm yourself more then anything else, so what's all this

scripts are hacks

stuff about. srsly. chill your beans.

if you don't know what to do at the right time, scripts won't help you at all.

if you are good and use scripts, you'll still be good without.

take that.R33 sticky spamguy. he scripts out his sticks but continuously fails in melee range as demo. there you see the difference between scripts and skill (aka sexy)

wether sexy now uses scripts or not, doesn't change his skill set at all

[-Tristan- 948]

I and many others use a script that crouch jumps every time I jump. It looks like this:

alias +crouchjump "+duck;+jump"
alias -crouchjump "-duck;-jump"

bind "space" "+crouchjump"

I literally never want to not crouch jump. I'm not going to press 2 keys every time when I can effectively just bind both functions to one key. I also use a helpful script to reassociate voice commands:

// This is the simple way to bind voice menu commands.
// This does not pop up the little voice menu dialog
// To use:
// bind "x" "v_cloakedspy"
// obviously, replace the key and the voice command you want to bind.
//
alias "v_medic" "voicemenu 0 0"
alias "v_thanks" "voicemenu 0 1"
alias "v_gogogo" "voicemenu 0 2"
alias "v_moveup" "voicemenu 0 3"
alias "v_goleft" "voicemenu 0 4"
alias "v_goright" "voicemenu 0 5"
alias "v_yes" "voicemenu 0 6"
alias "v_no" "voicemenu 0 7"
//
alias "v_incoming" "voicemenu 1 0"
alias "v_cloakedspy" "voicemenu 1 1"
alias "v_sentryahead" "voicemenu 1 2"
alias "v_teleporterhere" "voicemenu 1 3"
alias "v_dispenserhere" "voicemenu 1 4"
alias "v_sentryhere" "voicemenu 1 5"
alias "v_activateuber" "voicemenu 1 6"
alias "v_uberready" "voicemenu 1 7"
//
alias "v_help" "voicemenu 2 0"
alias "v_battlecry" "voicemenu 2 1"
alias "v_cheers" "voicemenu 2 2"
alias "v_jeers" "voicemenu 2 3"
alias "v_positive" "voicemenu 2 4"
alias "v_negative" "voicemenu 2 5"
alias "v_niceshot" "voicemenu 2 6"
alias "v_goodjob" "voicemenu 2 7"

bind "1" "v_goleft"
bind "2" "v_goright"
bind "3" "v_activateuber"
bind "4" "v_yes"
bind "5" "v_no"
bind "q" "v_battlecry"

This allows me to place my most used voice commands at easier locations.

[jayserp 1,911]

I and many others use a script that crouch jumps every time I jump. It looks like this:

alias +crouchjump "+duck;+jump"
alias -crouchjump "-duck;-jump"

bind "space" "+crouchjump"

I literally never want to not crouch jump. I'm not going to press 2 keys every time when I can effectively just bind both functions to one key.

But then how do you do small jumps as solider?

[-Tristan- 948]

I don't.

[Harlequin 2,975]

But then how do you do small jumps as solider?

that's why i don't use it. as i said. some scripts are like a trade. only you can decide if it's worth using them :-) i prefer having full control

[-Tristan- 948]

Why would you want to do small jumps anyway? Maybe if I'm missing something I should edit my config =)

Edited February 7, 2013 by im a penguin ;)

[Nam 11]

"Why learn how to do something and get some skill instead of going the easy way."

Yeah. I can see how this is better.

So right-clicking feverishly requires skill? You have a low skill bar then. But it still remains that you should always do things smarter, not harder. I'm not really sure how that is even arguable.

[Climhazzard 654]

So right-clicking feverishly requires skill?

sure does

no it doesn't

[Asjo 90]

I don't think anyone here has said scripts in TF2 in general equal cheating. People simply just point out why they would not want to use them or why they frown upon it. I did have that one case of doubt, but people said it couldn't possibly be a script.

I do want to mention that crouch jumping is a great example of another script that I wouldn't like. Crouch-jumping can make you harder to hit and it can make it harder to judge from your model what move you are making. So, people crouch-jumping constantly can be annoying as hell. Fortunately, them getting cramps from doing it is a good deterrent. However, if they are going to bother to do it manually, and manage to concentrate enough to do it while doing everything else, they deserve that advantage. If they get it for "free", they don't.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

As a game programmer, I'm just saying they're logistically the same thing. The only difference is that scripts are facilitated (and restricted) by the original program.

Some people lack the coordination to do a crouch-jump correctly the first try, just like some people lack the coordination to aim well. Both can be improved by written code. One is improved by code executed in a different process, while another is improved by code executed in the same process. One seems to be generally condoned while the other seems to be generally frowned upon. I'm merely pointing out that the reasons why one is considered to be more innocent than the next don't make much sense in terms of implementation details.

[Nano 7,892]

Friendly reminder (not aimed at anyone in particular) to keep it civil and to not attack anyone in particular over a viewpoint.

[Climhazzard 654]

Edited February 7, 2013 by Climhazzard

[-Tristan- 948]

I do want to mention that crouch jumping is a great example of another script that I wouldn't like. Crouch-jumping can make you harder to hit and it can make it harder to judge from your model what move you are making. So, people crouch-jumping constantly can be annoying as hell. Fortunately, them getting cramps from doing it is a good deterrent. However, if they are going to bother to do it manually, and manage to concentrate enough to do it while doing everything else, they deserve that advantage. If they get it for "free", they don't.

The same argument applies to changing your crouch key to one that is more comfortable. For example, my crouch key is "e," this is more comfortable for me than "CTRL." Assuming I press space and e simultaneously to crouch jump, have "earned" the crouch jump advantage less than someone who presses the more uncomfortable space + ctrl? I doubt anyone believes that.

[Asjo 90]

Well, that's still two keys. The game mechanics are completely the same. You don't automate anything. You might think "it's just pressing a key", but I do believe it's really hard to do in some situations. I remember watching Jaeger as a scout, where his model was basically freaking out due to repetitive crouching. Of all the scouts I've encountered, he was the hardest to hit which jumping around on bridge. I was thinking "he could impossibly keep that up perfectly all the while shooting at us", but he did, and I was impressed. If that was simply due to a script, any scouts could do it. Sure, they airmoves wouldn't be as clever as his, but they would still be significantly harder to hit without having to improve their skill.

[-Tristan- 948]

without having to improve their skill.

I think that's where I disagree with you. I used t crouch jump solely by pressing E and space simultaneously. It wasn't harder, it just caused me physical pain. Skill isn't that same as enduring tedium.

[Asjo 90]

Just because you were able to do it at any point in the game, doesn't mean anyone can - except if they use scripts, of course. I can think of many situations where I would forgot to crouch-jump, especially if it's double-crouched like what Jaeger seemed to be doing. The physical pain is a good deterrent against doing something that's quite annoying for other players. Just like boredom fortunately filters out some of the worst camping

[Ghost_Jor 583]

I think scripts and even shrunk view models makes the game, less like a game. Not as in everything is automated, I know scripts don't really affect the game THAT much, but I feel the game is less fun if you're adding all these things to it. Even little things like crouch-jumping being automated seems to me like you're playing less of the Team Fortress Valve made, and using things like a stab and sap script I think is cheating because it's a more pro move to do and you're not doing it properly.

It's silly really because I'm not entirely sure why I feel like scripts are bad, but if people told me they use scripts to do certain actions, I think less of them as a player because they aren't doing it like it was intended.

[-Tristan- 948]

The physical pain is a good deterrent against doing something that's quite annoying for other players. Just like boredom fortunately filters out some of the worst camping

You've just given me an idea. I should sell a concentration-enhancing drug to help give people that tf2 edge. I'll call it Camperal.

I think scripts and even shrunk view models makes the game, less like a game. Not as in everything is automated, I know scripts don't really affect the game THAT much, but I feel the game is less fun if you're adding all these things to it. Even little things like crouch-jumping being automated seems to me like you're playing less of the Team Fortress Valve made, and using things like a stab and sap script I think is cheating because it's a more pro move to do and you're not doing it properly. It's silly really because I'm not entirely sure why I feel like scripts are bad, but if people told me they use scripts to do certain actions, I think less of them as a player because they aren't doing it like it was intended.

See I feel like I enjoy the game more with custom configs, huds, crosshairs, sprays, graphics options and network settings. It's like customizing your computer or your desktop. That level of customization and individuality is also what attracts many gamers to the PC over consoles. The platform lends itself to freedom and personalization, and people find that rewarding.