Script A Bannable Offense?

[Jabberwock 273]

So doing a little watchin'. Demos usin' a script, let's 'em set off stickies soon as they hit. Basic idea behind script is lets player hold a button, dets the sticky insteada manually clicking each time. What's the verdict on this for rules?

[JoinedSenses 559]

Many scripts aren't a bannable offense. If this were a script, I don't see it as being up for ban.

[Climhazzard 654]

As far as I know, scripts are in no way an illegal offense, hack or cheat Anything a script does, a player can do on their own with practice

[Chez-Box 3,240]

I would disagree, that's bullshit, and shouldn't be allowed

As far as I know, scripts are in no way an illegal offense, hack or cheat Anything a script does, a player can do on their own with practice

with enough practice, I can become the best sniper in the world, so I can use aimbot? your logic is flawed I'm afraid

[JoinedSenses 559]

Aimbot isn't a script. It's an external program.

[Chez-Box 3,240]

Aimbot isn't a script. It's an external program.

the point remains the same, I think scripts are BS...

[JoinedSenses 559]

At the moment I use two scripts and they're amazing.

One is for the spy - it removes my model when I fire the ambassador. That gun takes up half the screen!

The second allows me to turn while charging as demoknight, using my q and e buttons . This should've been already in the game, considering that we have demo items that say 'increase turning speed while charging'.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

Using written code to automate gameplay mechanics instead of requiring the player to actually perform them sounds a lot like what hacks do. The only difference is it runs in the same process control block instead of a different one. I kind of wonder why people bother playing the game if they're just going to automate player actions... There ARE battle bot contests to compete in if you like AI so much.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

The second allows me to turn while charging as demoknight, using my q and e buttons . This should've been already in the game, considering that we have demo items that say 'increase turning speed while charging'.

"This should've been in the game already." is not an excuse to enhance anything above what's possible in the game right now. It's basically an advantage over other players, as, for example, i wouldn't expect a demo to do a fricken half turn while charging.

[JoinedSenses 559]

It's not an advantage. It isn't even a sharp turn. The mouse turning charge just doesn't work at all for me.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

It's not an advantage. It isn't even a sharp turn. The mouse turning charge just doesn't work at all for me.

I was generally speaking.

[Nano 7,892]

I and many other demos use that script.

alias checkatk2 none 

alias +autodet_attack "+attack; -attack2; spec_next"
alias -autodet_attack "-attack; checkatk2"
alias +autodet_attack2 "+attack2; alias checkatk2 +attack2; spec_prev"
alias -autodet_attack2 "-attack2; alias checkatk2 -attack2"

bind mouse1 +autodet_attack
bind mouse2 +autodet_attack2

You hold down mouse2 while clicking mouse1 and it detonates the stickies after their timer runs out (.8 sec). Wait commands for scripts don't work on our servers, so above is the modified version that doesn't require that specific command. It's really very specific in nature and I'm able to do the same thing without the script but a lot more clicking. It's essentially just nonstop right clicking, which any human can do as well.

Scripts aren't cheats, it's a built in game function.

[Climhazzard 654]

My other post remains sound. Scripts are not hacks, but things people can do on their own Charge in the 2fort sewers as a demoman, you will turn quick

Edited February 6, 2013 by Climhazzard

[Asjo 90]

I would personally frown upon scripts, for the same reason as Obvious. It gives an advantage, even if that advantage is just automating a fairly simple function or doing something more quickly. I fail to see a proper justification for using script other than it being practical. I personally see no reason to use scripts, and just play the game as it is. If I mess up a sticky detonation, then I mess it up - I don't want some script to do it for me. Not only that, but I wouldn't want to be locked down by some script that perform my actions in a certain manner.

Funnily, I have been accused of using script for doing a simple crit axe combo with pyro, so it would seem that script abuse is quite common. R33, a player on the 2Fort UK server, abuses stickies quite heavily, and therefore often kills his enemies én masse, tallying up a ton of kills with little effort. I saw he was accused of using scripts quite a few times because he seems to be able to fire long-range sticky bombs without having to wait for the sticky gun to charge up, allowing him to spam stickies just as quickly on long range as he would on short range. Can a script do that? If so, I don't see how that is any different from cheating.

Of course, I do remember from Counter-Strike how you can have a lot of useful scripts that don't really affect gameplay. But the ones mentioned in this thread definitely would affect gameplay.

[Climhazzard 654]

R33, a player on the 2Fort UK server, abuses stickies quite heavily, and therefore often kills his enemies én masse, tallying up a ton of kills with little effort. I saw he was accused of using scripts quite a few times because he seems to be able to fire long-range sticky bombs without having to wait for the sticky gun to charge up, allowing him to spam stickies just as quickly on long range as he would on short range. Can a script do that? If so, I don't see how that is any different from cheating.

I have never heard of a script doing that, and can't think of how a script could If he is launching bombs long-range without them charging, then I say it's a hack of some sort of hack

[Nano 7,892]

All a script does is automate actions you can do anyway in the game. If it modifies game behavior, that's where it crosses the line to a hack (and the built in system doesn't accommodate that).

[Asjo 90]

All a script does is automate actions you can do anyway in the game. If it modifies game behavior, that's where it crosses the line to a hack (and the built in system doesn't accommodate that).

Obviously. However, I cannot be sure that there is no manual way to instantly shoot stickies at full charge. What I do know is that there is no easy way to do it, hence why suspecting a script would make sense

[Possum 10,776]

Obviously. However, I cannot be sure that there is no way to instantly shoot stickies at full charge. What I do know is that there is no easy way to do it, hence why suspecting a script would make sense

I'm pretty sure that for game balance reasons you aren't supposed to ever be able to shoot stickies at full charge without charging them. If I caught someone doing that, I would view it as a hack/exploit, rather than a "legit" script. As Pro said, this is actively changing a game mechanic, rather than automating existing mechanics (which I frown upon anyway, but that's just my opinion).

[- Mike - 2,728]

As long as the script doesn't use the wait command, otherwise I don't care.

[-Tristan- 948]

bind mouse1 attack 

That is a script that everyone uses....

I saw he was accused of using scripts quite a few times because he seems to be able to fire long-range sticky bombs without having to wait for the sticky gun to charge up, allowing him to spam stickies just as quickly on long range as he would on short range. Can a script do that? If so, I don't see how that is any different from cheating.

I'm not aware of a script that can do that. The difference with shooting stickies at full charge without waiting is that it is impossible with normal game mechanics.

Many potentially abusive scripts are blocked because lotus servers run sv_pure. Thus, the "wait" command that Pro mentioned above.is blocked. Those that are permitted give only marginal benefits at best, and in my opinion are more of a way for people to get comfortable with their individual preferences.

[Kerberos 3,170]

Scripting is a tricky subject. It's legal, yet unfair. One could argue it's unfair that they have found these scripts that automate functions, and another may argue that at least they looked and found something to help them.

What ever you argue/debate about here in this thread will not change the inbuilt feature of TF2 of using them, and by my knowledge there is no feasible way for you to block scripts on Lotus servers. You can't really ban people for using scripts, or you'd probably loose more than half the community.

So yus, "it's trixy" - as Golem would say! I personally see scripting as automation, which is the same as hacking. That's why I use non. But that's just me.

[Nano 7,892]

As long as the script doesn't use the wait command, otherwise I don't care.

Pretty sure anyone using the wait command on one of our servers gets a lovely hl2.exe crash instantly

I think I'm done in this thread so other people can chat, but my last thought is that scripts are available to everyone to use equally, and thus it's not unfair. Also, many scripts do not affect gameplay, but might customize actions (automatically opening up the admin menu is a kind of script for instance).

[Kerberos 3,170]

Pretty sure anyone using the wait command on one of our servers gets a lovely hl2.exe crash instantly

I think I'm done in this thread so other people can chat, but my last thought is that scripts are available to everyone to use equally, and thus it's not unfair. Also, many scripts do not affect gameplay, but might customize actions (automatically opening up the admin menu is a kind of script for instance).

The last part is very true, scripts that aid admins in their work seem fine, but otherwise-

[Chez-Box 3,240]

My philosophy as far as a script to help you in actual gameplay, is that, if it is something you can do manually, just do it manually, automating things, I feel, takes away from the game a bit. Take some pride in being able to do something well instead of having a script do it for you, but again, this is just personal preference, I wouldn't find it as fun to play a game when I have a script doing half my actions for me...

Lots of engies use one to bind building a building to a key, instead of having to pull out the PDA to do it... I've always decided to look at that extra step as fairness, and one more thing to fine-tune how quick you can do in high pressure

[Jabberwock 273]

Welp. That answers my question then. At least I think Pro said the script I meant is fine. Heh. Sorry to start such a hoot'n'nanny.