Do Stats Matter?

[Captain Falcon 0]

I always hear people say stats don't matter. I think they are little bull shiters. When I do good my stats go up, when i do bad it goes down. Thats perfect for judging people. I don't believe stats matter for classes like medic. But soldiers, demos, snipers, heavies, ect. can all be judged properly by stats.

[Nket 16]

beating a dead horse.

[coda 1]

i say somewhat, because right now, stat's aren't so accurate. in a few weeks when everyone's stats are back up to speed, stat's will be good again.

[Mana 3,867]

Does your penis size mater? Does you weight matter? Does it matter how your girlfriend looks?

If you answered Yes to all of the above, then Yes.

And if you answered No... well then.

[Captain Falcon 0]

What i mean by matters is, does it compare 2 players effictively enough that if they were to play the same class and one is rank 50 and the other is 300 the 50 player is better. Sorry if i wasn't clear, I only mean matters by comparing 2 players skill, are stats a proper way to find a solution.

And yes my penis size matters.

[Jengo 0]

I say somewhat. My rank really isn't that important to me since rank fluctuates so much. What is more important to me is my skill points going up or down and my average KDR.

[Pavement 0]

I stopped caring about my stats around #25.

I found myself unwilling to play anything beyond Demo/Soldier because they didn't get a high enough KDR.

Nobody cares about your frags.

Can you hit KEY targets and secure objectives? Thats all that matters.

Killing the same engie over and over without ever hitting his SG is useless aside from padding your score.

Dropping from a roof and backburning a medic with his uber ready before he can deploy it is infinitely more useful to your team, but is only a 1:1 KDR.

Soldiers who excel at taking out SGs but are often ambushed by players while working his magic are again invaluable to a team but will have a weaker KDR.

Stats will show who is good at killing other players. On a 32 player server, thats a very important skill.

6v6 or 9v9, nade spam is not nearly half as effective and is pretty much a waste of a demo man who could be hitting every SG to make way for the scouts to cap.

In short, I guess it sort of matters on 32 player servers.

The smaller the teams, the more important tactics and teamwork are, and the less your KDR or score is going to matter.

[Jengo 0]

Of course teamwork is going to matter more on 6v6 or 9v9. Thank you captain obvious.

And if those soldiers who are taking out those SGs are not backed up by their teammates, then what they are doing is pointless because the engys just come right back and rebuild. I find myself being by myself a lot when I'm clearing out SGs and everyone else in the room only to be thwarted by that damn annoying pyro waiting around the corner. Yet there is noone on my team to come rushing in after and grab the intel. So the process has to be repeated again. Once in awhile I do get an awesome medic to help me out though.

[Pavement 0]

You some kind of idiot?

All I said about scores is that they show little about personal abilities.

They're just a question of how you play.

If you play a demo, always play on defense and nade spam without leaving your safety zone, you'll get a very nice KDR... but you're still a useless twat.

We can agree that hitting every SG is worthless if your team doesn't cooperate and help kill other players, keep you safe or move in to the point when they are weak... but that doesn't mean you should not attempt to play the game properly and strategically and instead play it safe and land a sweet score.

On pubbies, there are a handful of good players that are willing to make things happen if you give them the proper window. Pyros and will rush in the very second the SGs are clear and clean up the players while the scouts rush in during the fray.

It happens, and thats when you notice a team winning 12 - 0.

You're obviously still a grouch because AMD sucks nut atm, and I WILL be disregarding anything you have to say in response to this.

[Melissia 7]

You ask two different questions.

Do stats matter? No.

Do stats show who has the better skill? Yes.

These are not the same question. Stats don't matter to me, I don't have to see that I'm better than anyone to have fun.

[Jengo 0]

You some kind of idiot?

All I said about scores is that they show little about personal abilities.

They're just a question of how you play.

If you play a demo, always play on defense and nade spam without leaving your safety zone, you'll get a very nice KDR... but you're still a useless twat.

We can agree that hitting every SG is worthless if your team doesn't cooperate and help kill other players, keep you safe or move in to the point when they are weak... but that doesn't mean you should not attempt to play the game properly and strategically and instead play it safe and land a sweet score.

On pubbies, there are a handful of good players that are willing to make things happen if you give them the proper window. Pyros and will rush in the very second the SGs are clear and clean up the players while the scouts rush in during the fray.

It happens, and thats when you notice a team winning 12 - 0.

You're obviously still a grouch because AMD sucks nut atm, and I WILL be disregarding anything you have to say in response to this.

Ahh yes, your epenis is getting bigger by the second. And you're losing the blood to your brain since you obviously cannot comprehend what I was saying and that you insist on bringing a totally different discussion about processors into this thread about stats.

All that aside, flame on my brother..power to the people...

[-=^*Draco*^=- 0]

Dunno bout you guys but I have just enough time to hit number 1 on the stats page again before going to play another game most of the time ;o

[Alucard winrar 0]

I think stats do show who is more skilled. But you have to remember one little thing, it also counts user activity level so the less you play the lower your rank will be. Which is actually pretty true, if you dont play for a while you will have rusted some and will not be as good.

But the activity time only counts for Lotus servers. For instances I've found a fairly decent 24 person server with good players and lower ping then most lotus servers, so occasionally I'll play there. I could do epically well there, have a kdr of 3:1, 10 dominations, 15 blocks, 25 caps, and it all wouldnt meant shit to Lotus stats. At least thats my excuse for my stats dropping lol.

[Jengo 0]

Yeah, its a good thing it includes activity level. Otherwise someone who played a long time ago, who doesn't play there anymore, could hold a high rank. It encourages people to keep playing on the lotus servers. I just wish more people liked 2fort. There aren't too many people on there in the afternoons anymore. Its mostly an evening server.

[Camail 1]

I hate you.

[shpadoinkle 2]

Does your penis size mater?

<===

[Oww My Nose 19]

lol. yay enzyte.

i said no, stats don't matter.

[Captain Falcon 0]

Also according to mana in a previous topic. Everything besides walking and the such gives you skill points. So i suppose it is possible to see medics and such in the top 100.

I would really like the list of things that gives skill and how much. I don't know about you guys.

[Nket 16]

Also according to mana in a previous topic. Everything besides walking and the such gives you skill points. So i suppose it is possible to see medics and such in the top 100.

I would really like the list of things that gives skill and how much. I don't know about you guys.

mana is going to say no to this for obvious exploitation reasons.

[Camail 1]

I say we close this thread for fear of more people telling us their stupid ideas. Stop.

[BobRoss 0]

But I have a stupid idea!

Anyway I agree with pavement...don't really care about stats that much. Plenty of ways to game stats; by playing sniper for example you die fairly infrequently, and if you can get some good kills you'll get a good ratio. Medics...not so much.

Engineers can get a good KDR if they're well positioned on a defensive map, but what about offensive engies, who don't get many kills with their gun, but still are invaluable to the team if they're quick with a teleporter, and put dispensers and sgs where they're needed.

Scouts can help the team without getting many kills at all merely by tieing up players who are all working together to hunt down one player...the longer the scout stays alive, the longer those players are useless to their team.

Spies can do similar things, or just sap a heavily guarded sg long enough for someone else to destroy it...may not even get one kill out of it. They may even be very valuable to the team by doing silly things like sapping teleporters at spawn and distracting the enemy team. Or using voice chat to tell teammates where SGs are...these things don't get picked up on stats.

And of course you have medics...few points for kills, and they are TARGETS...everyone wants to kill the medic all the time. If a player has a choice between taking out a medic and his patient, he will usually try the medic first, unless the patient is really vulnerable/dangerous. This means that medics will be especially dependent on teammates who can help defend them from their opponents. I, for example rarely get killed by pyros when playing with good players, who know how to take on a sole pyro when being healed by a medic. But on a crappy team, I find myself in situations where an enemy pyro charges my heavy from across the screen, I faithfully heal the heavy, only to find them incapable of hitting the pyro once, then after they die, I have to retreat while needlegunning them. I'm good so I still win most of the time...but it can amount to a lot of deaths...especially when the pyros bring friends.

Heavies are TARGETS. Really good vs some classes, but very weak vs good spies and snipers. They're also often overwhelmed by 2-3 opponents at once. Oh and still not all that great with out a medic helping out...When I play heavy it is totally hit or miss, half the time dependent on a) do I have a good medic healing me and does the enemy team have a good sniper.

All that goes into Pavement's point about stats not telling what helps a team.

The other issue is what if your main class is something that gets a lot of kills like demo or soldier...well one person may refuse to ever play another class, even when it's needed. Another person may offer to play the other classes that will get lower stats just to help their team.

Since all the stats get lumped together, you wouldn't know it when both say "My main is demo and my rank is XXX" So you may get the impression that one is better than the other when indeed they aren't helping the team at all.

There is also an issue that is fairly rampant on lotus server with people switching to winning teams or ragequitting from losing teams. I will actually stick with a losing team, sometimes even after being autobalanced...although I do try to switch when I notice a slot open and my friends are all on one team. The stats system awards players who refuse to play on the losing team because as we all know, a player is only as good as the team they're on. I'm sure even the best demo-man has a hard time staying alive vs 3 or 4 opponents, who are constantly attacking him, because the rest of his team is dead. That doesn't reflect on his skill at all, but rather things like determination and willingness to attempt a challenge...yet it will be reflected in their stats.

I've also noticed differences in skill levels seem to have to do with times of day...like better players tend to be on in the morning or at night, with lots of crappy pre-teens during the daytime. If someone only plays with the crappy players they may be able to exploit that lack of skill to rack up the kills...this may not be intentional, it just happens.

The stats don't accurately model what makes a good player, or what makes a team work well together.

I point these things out for two reasons:

1) I mostly play medic...so I'm never going to have a really high rank...but I've come to accept that (although I do often get MVP in games...so I think Steam may actually overvalue healing a bit with points allocations - probably just to encourage people to play medic).

2) I get really annoyed when I'm playing goldrush with 4 snipers who are all hanging back trying to get kills without dying, but won't help push the cart or take out sentry guns...In this case, that obsession with stats actually hurts the team and makes potentially good players bad.

Along the same lines I often notice situations where my team is completely focused on killing enemy players, and seems to take no interest in the mission objectives. Not sure if that is stat driven, or because they're noobs.

Anyway not to say that stats are completely meaningless...but I'm not going to worry myself over them. I know good players when I see them, usually taunting over my corpse....or using my uber to take out 3 or 4 sentry guns. I look for good players constantly because I don't want to waste my uber on a bad one...but I never worry about stats...I pay attention to the names that get me lots of assists, and the names that keep coming back for healing because they know how not to die.

Wow, I really went on there...thats what happens when a procrastinating psych grad student commits to answering a question.

[Mana 3,867]

I would really like the list of things that gives skill and how much. I don't know about you guys.

I'm finally starting to see why other board admins hate people who keep on asking questions that have been answered many times already.

As such I won't bother answering here, but I will bother to try and teach you how to use search.

There are 2 different searches you can do:

1) All posts made by Mana

or

2) Forum Search Feature

[Captain Falcon 0]

I already checked if you ever said it.

You said in another topic.

I will not say which actions give the most points or which give the least.

Your reason for this was

If I did say all of that then people would simply do what gives the most points and that would mess stats up.

Now shouldn't what gives the most stats also be the hardest to obtain, like dominate a person better rank than you. How would that mess up stats? If people are doing the thigns that give the most skill shouldn't that include, kill good players, win games, heal people. So how does that mess up games? In game it doesn't show the rank of players so kill everyone. Unless the thigns that the stats give better are friking weird than i don't see the problem with revealing what gives what.

[Pavement 0]

Get over it.

Also, props BobRoss. Well said.

[KillerKeg 10]

Somewhat.