Eliminating Hoodoo/Pipeline From Stock Maps Rotation

[Spartan_0214 18]

Okay. This is only for those of you who play on Stock Maps. The other day the regulars were on Stock Maps United States. At the last second someone voted to go to PLR_Pipeline. We played the first section of three for AN ENTIRE HOUR. Pipeline does not have a map timer and thus can be played for hours on end, clogging the Stock Maps servers. Hoodoo is another terrible map forced upon us by Gabe. Hoodoo is a poorly constructed community map that very few people like to play on. Most of the regulars don't like to play on it and about the only time a vote for it goes through is at the very last second when nothing can be done about it. I am very curious as to the exact number of people who don't like the two new maps.

[+Henry Spencer 117]

/signed

Pipeline takes FAR too long, unless the teams are stacked beyond belief.

Hoodoo is just terribly constructed. There are no uncluttered open areas for sentry placement, and the second stage defense is so easy, it's unbelievable. Even with a 20 second respawn time, the sheer amount of demo spam, pyro airblasting, scout Bonk!ing, and Huntsman arrowing makes reaching a point 10 feet from their spawn impossible. I haven't even seen the 3rd stage yet, but from what I heard last night, it's just as bad as the first 2.

[Miyari 33]

I've had no problem initiating mapvotes off of these maps, so while I do understand that they are kinda terrible, unless there's absolutely no donators it really should't be too much of a big deal - it'd be like removing Hydro. Pipeline has actually grown on me, a little, and we played all 3 rounds of it multiple times last night on Stock 2 until we finally got tired of it. The other points of Hoodoo are fucking terrible sentry farms and pointless to even play. So, while I understand the foaming on them, players can always Rock the Vote or one of the many donators on the Stock servers can vote it off.

[The Lorax 25]

Have to agree with Miyari that pipeline has become more interesting as of late, but it still is a poorly designed map. Making the first two stages straightaways was a very bad idea. The map immediately becomes a sniper minigame, while every other class seems incapable of realizing that these stages allow you to flank without being exposed.

I think it's too early to declare them both shit until the arrow spamming and terrible spy playing stops. Once that happens I bet the maps will become a bit more playable. Maybe once the teams can finally scrounge up an engineer who can learn to build in the side tunnels and a medic who is smart enough to heal the useful classes instead of the 7 snipers and 4 spies, the map will become winnable. I will say however, that both these maps encourage every kind of bad behavior you can find in this game: spam, camping, w+m1 pyroing.

Pain in the ass in general, but give it a chance.

[Rivanor 1]

terrible spy playing stops.

I too have been disturbed by the mediocre spy playing I have witnessed. Thankfully it seems to be dying down. The sniper spam however is still in full force.

I will say however, that both these maps encourage every kind of bad behavior you can find in this game: spam, camping, w+m1 pyroing.

haha... w+m1 pyroing. Yeah there has been a LOT o that. So much so that I've been "forced" to play heavy a LOT with great success. But it is pretty annoying to have to choose between winning (ie choosing a good class to counter what the enemy is doing) or trying out the new stuff.

Oh BTW, I think Hoodoo has potential. Pipeline... I dunno. I've only played it a few times and there is always mass Pyro W+M1 spam everywhere which kills everyone's fun unless you like playing pyro and taking out 1 guy before dying yourself every single time you respawn.

[h3gi 5]

The only real problem I have with pipeline is the same problem I have with most ctf games: without a timer, or with a horrendously fat one, the games just end up going absolutely nowhere because there's always the turtling engineers that newbies can't deal with, watching gleefully as their sentry racks up kills while not helping with the objective. Add a timer to pipeline and I'm sure it'll get people to try and move the cart more as the timer ticks down. The map is really small, though, so 16v16 might end up in stalemate more often than not.

I haven't tried hoodoo yet, but from what I hear, I'm not missing anything.

[Rydawg 14]

The problem is simple, The maps need timers. Even right now you can't change the map if you cant win or run out of time. Vavle = failure in doing this.

[Spartan_0214 18]

I've had no problem initiating mapvotes off of these maps, so while I do understand that they are kinda terrible, unless there's absolutely no donators it really should't be too much of a big deal - it'd be like removing Hydro. Pipeline has actually grown on me, a little, and we played all 3 rounds of it multiple times last night on Stock 2 until we finally got tired of it. The other points of Hoodoo are fucking terrible sentry farms and pointless to even play. So, while I understand the foaming on them, players can always Rock the Vote or one of the many donators on the Stock servers can vote it off.

The f'king problem is that people initiate mapvotes RIGHT AT THE END OF THE ROUND. And we have to play the crappy map ten minutes before initiating another mapvote. Which only changes the map at the end of the round. Kind of a problem at the first part of Pipeline when there's no timer to end the round.

[Captain Planet 28]

Pipeline - Meh, I'll give it a chance. I like the new style of play it has to offer, especially the last stage with the ginormous ramps. Love playing scout on that map and getting behind everyone.

Hoodoo - Sigh. That 2nd point being a SHED THAT THE CART HAS TO BE FULLY PUSHED INTO WITH THE SPAWNS A MERE 10 FEET FROM THE CAP POINT is really a pain in the ass. Its cons outweigh the pros (if any, I can't think of any right now). Seriously, no bueno. Like Henry, still haven't made it to the last stage. Worse than old Egypt IMO.

[Data 2]

Not having played too much on either map, I don't mind them. However, I do agree w/most that there needs to be a timer. I wonder if Steam will update the map with that feature later?

[Melissia 7]

No. Stock Maps should be Stock Maps, not just "A few maps that are stock". If the maps suck, then that's Valve's fault. A timer would be good, however. Whoever has moved their cart the furthest wins and moves on to the next map with the advantage, if they're both at the same place, ti's a draw and it starts over.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Melissia

[redruM_13 17]

I voted no. I have to agree. Stock maps are stock maps. At any rate, I'll bet Valve is busy today trying to work out all the complaints and mistakes.

[JonasV 9]

I voted no. I have to agree. Stock maps are stock maps. At any rate, I'll bet Valve is busy today trying to work out all the complaints and mistakes.

^^ This. Despite them being varying degrees of bad, when you start tossing maps because they are poorly designed and haven't had a chance to be fixed (ala egypt) I think its jumping the gun a bit.

Personally pipeline has grown on me somewhat, I don't think it is as bad as I originally believed, but hoodoo remains abysmal for all the reasons everyone has already stated.

Edited May 27, 2009 by JonasV

[kuttlewug 28]

The first time I played hoodoo I was expecting better but didn't get it but I haven't played it enough to find tons of things wrong with it. I like the idea behind pipeline with two carts but that map is absolutely horrid in my opinion. Way too many snipers camping out on so many ledges not only that but I found the layout rather confusing :/

[Rivanor 1]

And we have to play the crappy map ten minutes before initiating another mapvote.

Maybe this is the problem (having this 10 minute limitation).

[Mana 3,867]

It's not going to happen. The only real reason to remove a map from Stock Maps would be if there's some bug that causes crashes and that would only be temporary until valve fixed it.

Since there's an end map vote, rtv, and donator mapvoting it's not going to be removed. Also removing it would be inconvenient as every update would overwrite the mapcycle and changing that mapcycle to a different file would make require manual editing everytime new maps were added and so they would not be part of the rotation until I added them.

Maybe this is the problem (having this 10 minute limitation).

No that is not a problem, in fact that is a solution to a problem. It was really horrible when there was no limitation or when the limitation was short (2 minutes).

[Captain Planet 28]

It's not going to happen. The only real reason to remove a map from Stock Maps would be if there's some bug that causes crashes and that would only be temporary until valve fixed it.

Since there's an end map vote, rtv, and donator mapvoting it's not going to be removed. Also removing it would be inconvenient as every update would overwrite the mapcycle and changing that mapcycle to a different file would make require manual editing everytime new maps were added and so they would not be part of the rotation until I added them.

No that is not a problem, in fact that is a solution to a problem. It was really horrible when there was no limitation or when the limitation was short (2 minutes).

There is? Like, if it was past the 10 minutes and it seemed a stalemate, we could vote to end the map somehow (especially on CTFs or Hydro or Pipeline)? If so, why isn't this used more? I know of a couple of times where this could have had a good use...

[FunkyFresh 68]

Wish there was.

[h3gi 5]

Okay, so I finally get to play Hoodoo today. And lo and behold, it turns out I DID play it, over a year ago, while it was still unrefined. No wonder I thought I'd never played it before, it was so forgetfully bad.

[Graedus 9]

I really have no problems with the new maps. The only issue at hand is a teams insistence to use 7 snipers and 5 spies at a time at the moment

[redruM_13 17]

I really have no problems with the new maps. The only issue at hand is a teams insistence to use 7 snipers and 5 spies at a time at the moment

Even though I haven't played these maps enough; I second this. It may be quite different when all the hoopla dies down. The new arena maps are fun. As fun as you can have on arena.

[Spartan_0214 18]

Okay, just played the map with balanced teams. Guess what? Little difference. There's no decent place for an engineer to build, there are too many sniper nests for a medic to avoid, demo spam pretty much keeps the offensive team from getting past the tunnel exit, the ditches are a nuisance, etc. Overall, it's a poorly designed map that makes me question Valve's idea of making fewer, but better maps. Were they just being lazy and planning on taking maps from the Community instead of building their own? Great job. So far, the best Community map is Steel. And most people don't like that map. Most people don't like the new maps. C'mon Valve, stop screwing around.

[Rydawg 14]

Yes Mana, please tell use how to do this 'end map vote' cause noone knows how to atm.

[Mana 3,867]

Yes Mana, please tell use how to do this 'end map vote' cause noone knows how to atm.

Then you are all retarded.

There is a vote that happens at the end of every map. It picks the next 5 maps from the rotation and displays them for voting. If no map wins then the next map in rotation is played. Alternatively the current map can be extended up to 3 times if everyone votes 1 (extend).

[Rydawg 14]

end map vote, i think ever took that as a vote to end the current map not a vote at the end of a map. The main issue people are having with the no timer maps is they can go on forever it seems, should be away to vote if off at any point w/o waitin on someone to win