short circuit now viable?

[Nano 7,892]

Short Circuit definetley makes me ragequit the game immediately.

My Opinion {Beware of hate [and also a wall of text(with no colors!) ] }:

As a person who plays dustbowl only (see my rank in my signature), and as a person who only plays Demoman, Short circuit ruins everything.

Why?

1) Engineer inside a base, using short circuit vs. Demoman outside

>There is LITERALLY no way as a demo to kill an engineer using SC inside a base.

2) Engineers using it as a defence when a demo attacks with an uber

>Every single shot you shoot, goes into oblivion. I waste 80% of my uber trying to melee the engineer.

3) Engineer is not a solo class, Its a class that enchants your team, if they play wisely.

>Short Circuit changes everything. Now engineers can solo defend their sentries (like it wasn't bad enough when they buffed the wrangler shield)

4) Anyone can use it. Anyone who can reach WASD With their other hand, and the mouse with other (aka. 3 year olds), can use it. It requires 0 skill. Only problem is ammo.

>It doesn't go the typical "Aww god damnit! Hes so good! I hate him!". Now its all "Oh one of those again... sigh... time to swap servers"

Whole Dustbowl Game (based on real-events) w/ Short Circuit

Its friday, that one day when you can yell as hard as you want, and nobody shall complain.

I see my buddy Paulfectly pop online; "Sup m8 o/"

We go through all the generic chat topics, exchange a few laughs and so.

;"hey, wanna play some bl2?" ;"Naaaa, not really, no. TF2 though?" ;"That's even better!"

I dip my eyes on the serverbrowser on steam, check if my all time favorite server Lotusclan.com Dustbowl 24/7 x33 UK has any players.

>30/33

Perfect. Or should I say, Paulfect! I join the server and tell my lad to join.

Blu 14 - Red 16; We both join the Blue team. Dutchkev is there, Mr.Sniffels is hanging about, I see H7TCH, Unlimit3d, Muhwih, Even TygDym, Simi.si, Bunch of great people! (sorry if I didn't mention you my love) It's a good day!

3rd Third starts.

Paul takes medic, I bungle Demoman

We sit in the base, taunting at the pyro on the other side of the gates trying to burn us; we're charing our uber >70%

Match is about to start... We both go silent. We know what's up. Destruction!

>Ubercharge Ready!; Soon after the gates open. We hit uber right away, no risks.

We strafe to the right past the stickies avoiding possible fly bunce.

There's a heavy on the left, spy using dead ringer falls in front of us.

But what's that, shit, 2 pyros infront, inb4 airblast;>Our heavy kills them both. Everything is going perfect.

At this point there's only about 60% of uber left, we gotta be quick.

The left yard is empty, the building is empty, we run past the enemies to check the right.

There's a sentry on the stairs, and 2 sentries up on the quick entrance.

I start spamming stickies on the 2 sentries, blow them up after 4th sticky lands the ground, finish the last sentry off just barely; our uber is out. We run to the point, Paul dies, I manage to the point, ton of people right next to me. Pain Train deals with that, Melee a scout and a burning medic. I cap the point.

Few seconds later the last point gets 2x cap. Scoutcap. We win the round. Me and Paul are MVP

1st Third starts. We get scrambled back to blue.

We sit in the pit spawn, spamming our holiday-snow-soundmaker-whatever

The ubercharge is loading. I'm looking at my hat collection

Dutchkev desperately wants to HighFive me. >"No!" and I shake my mouse. We're all having a great time.

We rush out, uber immediately again. But this time there's trouble; Ubered pyro airblasting us back!

Another fellow uber runs straight through us. Its a pyro and medic! They blast enemy ubers away and we sneak through them.

We run to the point, There's a sentry near the hp pack on the top, and one in the corner. I get a few hits on the futher one, but our uber runs out.

We go to the middle pit, I get both sentries, Our teammates finish off rest of the enemies. We cap the point!

We go through the right tunnel. Seems empty, I constantly check my scoreboard to see who's alive. Half of enemies are dead.

We rush to the point. Barely get it capped in time, before everyone else appears.

Guess who are the MVPs

Its going so well.

2nd Third starts.

Charging another uber, its just a routine for us. We're blabbing about our Finnish lifes in the steam voice chat.

Uber ready, round starts.

Rushing from the left, Few sentries on the roof of the hut on the right. I decide to ignore it and run for the alley.

There's a heavy waiting for us, but before he has time to start spinning his minigun; bits and guts are already flying about.

Nothing in the building. Strange. They must have forfeited and just stacked on defending the last point.

We cap it and clear the place while waiting for a new uber.

Walking on the right tunnel, still nobody near. They're definetley stacking on last point, I'm sure.

We get a teleporter in the tunnel. Our pyro kills a spy in the corner.

>100% uber; Time to go.

Shit gets serious

I hear like 72,817 billion times the amount of atoms in this universe worth of sentries on the other side

We go to the open; I overestimated a bit, its just 3. But that's enough to knock our uber behind the rocks.

I start piping over, I hear no Ding Ding hits.

I spam stickies, before I get to blow them up they disappear.

There's an engineer using The Short Circuit.

Wellllll shit.

From this point it just gets deeper and deeper into shit.

We change classes, we try everything.

We have like 17 minutes on the clock.

I do everything I can, Paul does everything he can.

But we just can't get those sentries down. Heavies get air-blasted away before you can even see the sentries.

Spy doesn't work, they have like 72,817 billion times the amount of atoms in this universe worth of

pyros. We can't snipe them, we can't pipe them, we can't flame them, we're useless. We're old.

After SEVENTEEN MINUTES of failed triumphs with one of the best teams on that server, we lose to 3 sentries, few pyros, and some medic heavies.

Such Disgrace. Ignominy. Stigma. Mortification. Dishonor. Reproach. Indignity. Obloquy. Condemnation. Vilification. Contempt.

Massive Scandal. Outrage. Stigmatize. Infamy. Opprobrium. And most importantly: Vitunmoinen suru ja masennus

We change to red, not that we care anyways, all is lost. There is no Hope. Desire. Ambition. Aim. Goal. Plan. No Design. We Anticipate Defeat. Vanquishment. Beating. Outvote.

Just Bewilder, Mystify, Bemuse, Confuse, Confound...

1st Third starts. We're on red.

We charge our kritz.

Gates open, I spam pipes and stickies, I see like 72,817 billion times the amount of atoms in this universe worth of enemies. 0 Kills. 0 Hits.

That's it.

I quit.

>[sgC]Attewir has disconnected. (Disconnected by; user)

>[sGC]Paulfectly has disconnected. (Disconnected by; user)

I couldn't resist.

http://puu.sh/68iiI/99286c5052.txt

http://puu.sh/68ik6/574ffa3ac6.png

TL;DR: It should be nerfed/removed

I don't mean this to be inflammatory but doesn't your story actually show short circuit might not be op? I mean you win 4 times in a row easily because you used teamwork demo/medic (and this is a regular occurrence for you for a long time now. what you couldn't get by was a combination on defense of pyros, engines, medics and heavies also using teamwork. you losing when you usually win using years old tactics doesn't prove it's op. it just shows that your old strategy didn't work anymore.

do I think sooth circuit is op? yeah I do. but your story doesn't make the case I think.

[Kerberos 3,170]

My main class is now engy because of the SC. I call my self BATTLE ENGY KEBBY and I rape all sollies and demoes

[Katiwir (Real) 79]

I don't mean this to be inflammatory but doesn't your story actually show short circuit might not be op? I mean you win 4 times in a row easily because you used teamwork demo/medic (and this is a regular occurrence for you for a long time now. what you couldn't get by was a combination on defense of pyros, engines, medics and heavies also using teamwork. you losing when you usually win using years old tactics doesn't prove it's op. it just shows that your old strategy didn't work anymore.

do I think sooth circuit is op? yeah I do. but your story doesn't make the case I think.

 

I see what you mean.

 

But even with that mentality, Its a complete turn. From winning 100% to losing 100% 

 

And anyways, I only win every time I play because I'm da UFOOOOO~!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_PoPIvKPe4&feature=youtu.be&t=59s

Edited January 5, 2014 by Katiwir (Real)
you just needed to use full url, not yout (dot).be

[+JB. 4,800]

I'm using Shotgun on Pub sometimes now. It's great when those engies jump Down from 2fort balcony when they see you with rl, spam their sc and you just kill them with 2 shots.

[Se7en 10,762]

I'm using Shotgun on Pub sometimes now. It's great when those engies jump Down from 2fort balcony when they see you with rl, spam their sc and you just kill them with 2 shots.

[Nano 7,892]

I think today's Nerf strikes the right balance. no more using it as a offensive weapon but can serve it's original purpose of turtling.

[Chez-Box 3,240]

I think today's Nerf strikes the right balance. no more using it as a offensive weapon but can serve it's original purpose of turtling.

yep

Updated the Short Circuit

• Damage lowered
• Consumes 15 metal per projectile destroyed
• Can no longer fire underwater

[luop90 4,400]

<p>

yep

Updated the Short Circuit

• Damage lowered
• Consumes 15 metal per projectile destroyed
• Can no longer fire underwater

Finally. They did what I called they would do. They made it an airblast. That would really be the only way to fix it anyway xD

[Barbaro 466]

Kinda wish it was put back the way it was. Shit engies running around make me cry. I still use the damn thing, but only to keep Demospam and Soldierspam out of my nest.

[-Insanity- 27]

Still blatantly overpowered, especially in KOTH. When there's no need to repair minisentries, there's no need for much metal, and a good short circuit engi renders the enemy demo and solly useless. In 5cp, A/D, and Payload, good engies make it hell to bring down their nest, almost to the point where 2 ubercharges are necessary to take down 1 nest, which is simply broken. 

 

Also demo's and soldier's surprise capabilities become useless. 

 

Soldier can't bomb and krtiz gets nullified unless med pops on a hitscan class. 

[luop90 4,400]

Still blatantly overpowered, especially in KOTH. When there's no need to repair minisentries, there's no need for much metal, and a good short circuit engi renders the enemy demo and solly useless. In 5cp, A/D, and Payload, good engies make it hell to bring down their nest, almost to the point where 2 ubercharges are necessary to take down 1 nest, which is simply broken. 

 

Also demo's and soldier's surprise capabilities become useless. 

 

Soldier can't bomb and krtiz gets nullified unless med pops on a hitscan class.

They need to lower the firing speed. There needs to be a certain amount of skill to use it. Not just spamming the hell out of the thing hoping for the best. It should do like a burst fire mode every couple seconds to make sure that you actually have to time it. Not just spaming the living hell out of it.

[Barbaro 466]

They need to lower the firing speed. There needs to be a certain amount of skill to use it. Not just spamming the hell out of the thing hoping for the best. It should do like a burst fire mode every couple seconds to make sure that you actually have to time it. Not just spaming the living hell out of it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly there.

 

Problem is, I'm finding more and more of these combat engies who use it to lunge at people, coupled with a minisentry. While avoiding a fire, being able to take on enemies like this is starting to become a pain in the ass, mostly due to how when people play as let's say, Soldier or Demo, you can't exactly hurt the engie without having to resort to a secondary or a melee, which should probably be used to finish off people, not as a primary weapon.

[Se7en 10,762]

So much babies. LOL

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

I agree with you wholeheartedly there.

 

Problem is, I'm finding more and more of these combat engies who use it to lunge at people, coupled with a minisentry. While avoiding a fire, being able to take on enemies like this is starting to become a pain in the ass, mostly due to how when people play as let's say, Soldier or Demo, you can't exactly hurt the engie without having to resort to a secondary or a melee, which should probably be used to finish off people, not as a primary weapon.

 

Well now you know how it is to play degreaser pyro. When your primary weapon is melee axtinguisher. 

Also it is fun when you have to kill demo with Chargin Targe.... 

Game is getting more ridiculous with every update

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

I'm just glad they didn't try to "improve" the medic more...

[Barbaro 466]

So much babies. LOL

Well now you know how it is to play degreaser pyro. When your primary weapon is melee axtinguisher. 

Also it is fun when you have to kill demo with Chargin Targe.... 

Game is getting more ridiculous with every update

I do actually play it, except their little minishit tears up my HP before I can get him. Somehow I'm a more 'viable' target as a Pyro than a Solly or Demo as I've had many repeated lunge-kills ruined because there's Bad Ass Billy nearby that gets in the fucking way.

 

Not to mention he stops spamming the circuit, detonates a sentry and boom, Revengineer to the face.

I'm just glad they didn't try to "improve" the medic more...

RIP MEEM.

[D-Bee 3,448]

The Short Circuit should be a defensive item only. If it didn't do damage but stopped projectiles it would be fine. If you want to play offense Engie, grab the Gunslinger and Widowmaker.

[Asjo 90]

I think the people calling Short Circuit annoying are understating the significance of this update. This weapon is now as detrimental to the game as sticky camping. It's really game breaking. It saddens me every time I see it used, and I often find myself cursing that the engies who use it don't realize what they're doing to the game.

 

I thought Valve had really screwed up with the fire immunity on the Targin Charge, a seeming thoughtless update that really hurt the gameplay. But compared to this update, that almost seems acceptable, since there is a still a semblance of a fight between pyros and anti-pyro demos. With Short Circuit, any engineer can press mouse1 and basically cancel out almost any action on the map. God forbid a skilled and active engineer uses it - they can keep a sentry up anywhere on the map, meaning all people do it fight sentries. It's really disheartening for an attacking team to know despite their best efforts, they can accomplish nothing. Yes heavy/medic can still do it, but without the aid of the other classes, they don't get anywhere fast. Especially if the teams are quite evenly matched and the defenders are stubborn. You'll have pyros pushing away the übered heavy and Short Circuit making sure the demos and solders cannot kill them. The situation can go on forever, and even after a few minutes the meaningless repetition is approaching insanity.

 

I cannot for the life of me see how Valve could not fix this one. If they are forcing the engie to aim with it now, that's great, but I'm afraid this will give them a false sense of having fixed the problem. Sure, that would mean that newbies cannot keep canceling out the opponents, but a skilled player would still be able to make sure that the opponents can do nothing, regardless of how good they are. "Use shotgun" is a fucking brainless thing to say to a soldier who does not use shotgun (yes, Se7en is probably just baiting us babies, but I constantly hear people saying it on the server), just like kids who dislikes Axtinguisher pyros were saying that pyros had to use shotgun against anti-pyro demos.

 

Short Curcuit was actaully a cool weapons before. One that was slightly situational and that few people knew how to use. In the right hands, it could be extremely powerful, except against a charging heavy, as peopel have mentioned. Now it's just a parody. Even the sound and silly animation of it now leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Asjo

[Reisen 1,973]

Am I going insane? I've read about an update that nerfed it, but when I used it on Lotus Servers, it still did 10 damage + 5 metal use. Haha

[Barbaro 466]

Am I going insane? I've read about an update that nerfed it, but when I used it on Lotus Servers, it still did 10 damage + 5 metal use. Haha

Last time it appeared was this.

 

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_9,_2014_Patch and http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_10,_2014_Patch

 

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_13,_2014_Patch A Face of Robin Walker? All my wats.

[JMaster299 654]

This weapon is now as detrimental to the game as sticky camping. 

I don't want to get into all the other stuff you said, but am greatly confused by this. Sticky camping is a legit strategy that has been around since the game was created. The Sticky Launcher is not something that was added to the game after launch and has not received any significant changes either.

With out reading patch notes for the last 6 years, I am sure the arming time and/or damage may have been balanced over the years, but no major changes. It is one of the few original weapons that has never been replaced by a significant alternative. The Scottish Resistance is situational at best and has never been popular.

So I am struggling to understand how Sticky camping has hurt the game? It's the entire purpose of the Sticky Launcher, place them at a strategic point and wait for someone to show up and blow them it bits. There are other ways they can be used, but the remote destination makes camping their entire purpose.

Now, if you are referring to spawn camping, the strat is still valid and Demos are hardly the only class that can spawn camp.

[Nano 7,892]

I think the people calling Short Circuit annoying are understating the significance of this update. This weapon is now as detrimental to the game as sticky camping. It's really game breaking. It saddens me every time I see it used, and I often find myself cursing that the engies who use it don't realize what they're doing to the game.

 

I thought Valve had really screwed up with the fire immunity on the Targin Charge, a seeming thoughtless update that really hurt the gameplay. But compared to this update, that almost seems acceptable, since there is a still a semblance of a fight between pyros and anti-pyro demos. With Short Circuit, any engineer can press mouse1 and basically cancel out almost any action on the map. God forbid a skilled and active engineer uses it - they can keep a sentry up anywhere on the map, meaning all people do it fight sentries. It's really disheartening for an attacking team to know despite their best efforts, they can accomplish nothing. Yes heavy/medic can still do it, but without the aid of the other classes, they don't get anywhere fast. Especially if the teams are quite evenly matched and the defenders are stubborn. You'll have pyros pushing away the übered heavy and Short Circuit making sure the demos and solders cannot kill them. The situation can go on forever, and even after a few minutes the meaningless repetition is approaching insanity.

 

I cannot for the life of me see how Valve could not fix this one. If they are forcing the engie to aim with it now, that's great, but I'm afraid this will give them a false sense of having fixed the problem. Sure, that would mean that newbies cannot keep canceling out the opponents, but a skilled player would still be able to make sure that the opponents can do nothing, regardless of how good they are. "Use shotgun" is a fucking brainless thing to say to a soldier who does not use shotgun (yes, Se7en is probably just baiting us babies, but I constantly hear people saying it on the server), just like kids who dislikes Axtinguisher pyros were saying that pyros had to use shotgun against anti-pyro demos.

 

Short Curcuit was actaully a cool weapons before. One that was slightly situational and that few people knew how to use. In the right hands, it could be extremely powerful, except against a charging heavy, as peopel have mentioned. Now it's just a parody. Even the sound and silly animation of it now leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I consider myself a pretty good engie (keep in mind I'm the only one not using gunslinger as my main sentry in this list), and I use the short circuit a lot now.  I use it only on defense.  I also consider my aim fairly good...  but the short circuit's ammo cost makes this weapon balanced I think.  Even with a full level 3 dispenser next to me, I find myself running out of ammo all the time. Not because I'm spamming it.  But because once the spam from every projectile class (pyro, huntsman, soldier, demo) is heading towards my sentry I can only weather a single barrage before I'm out.  The -15 metal for every projectile you get is impossible to keep up with.  This happens to me almost every game. 

 

You must also take into consideration that to use it defensively you have to prepare.  It uses way to much ammo to employ during your setup.  This means that you will need to set up in a more defensive location if you plan on using it, so you can have a level 3 dispenser close by to keep it filled for that first barrage.  Don't even get me started on how other less experienced engies who died at the first point now rush to my full level 3 on the next point and drain it of all metal so they can set up again... leaving the short circuit untenable just when I needed it most.

 

I don't know about using it offensively, so I won't speak to that.  But I know that my sentry stuff still goes down under the perfect conditions fairly often.  To me that seems balanced.

[Asjo 90]

I consider myself a pretty good engie (keep in mind I'm the only one not using gunslinger as my main sentry in this list), and I use the short circuit a lot now.  I use it only on defense.  I also consider my aim fairly good...  but the short circuit's ammo cost makes this weapon balanced I think.  Even with a full level 3 dispenser next to me, I find myself running out of ammo all the time. Not because I'm spamming it.  But because once the spam from every projectile class (pyro, huntsman, soldier, demo) is heading towards my sentry I can only weather a single barrage before I'm out.  The -15 metal for every projectile you get is impossible to keep up with.  This happens to me almost every game. 

 

You must also take into consideration that to use it defensively you have to prepare.  It uses way to much ammo to employ during your setup.  This means that you will need to set up in a more defensive location if you plan on using it, so you can have a level 3 dispenser close by to keep it filled for that first barrage.  Don't even get me started on how other less experienced engies who died at the first point now rush to my full level 3 on the next point and drain it of all metal so they can set up again... leaving the short circuit untenable just when I needed it most.

 

I don't know about using it offensively, so I won't speak to that.  But I know that my sentry stuff still goes down under the perfect conditions fairly often.  To me that seems balanced.

 

Well, I haven't played with the Short Circuit since the big buff, so I can only go from what I see, which is that all projectiles are destroyed, regardless of fairly heavy spam. The struggles you mention sound quite map-specific. In some maps, so-called "spammaps" (Dustbowl, for instance), the entire team will be one or two points at the same time. Only on these kind of maps would an engineer have to withstand barrage after barrage of spam from the attackers without any other defenders intervening. However, on other maps, there will often just be 3-4 attackers to do the job, and often several defenders. Now, having 200 metal alone should mean that a soldier and a sticky demo can spam all their ammo at you without any effect. If you stand next to your dispenser, I'm sure that two soldiers and two sticky demos could spam at you without ever doing any damage. Add another engie to the mix, and now you have the entire offense of the enemy team spamming at you to no effect. No matter whether that is "difficult" or requires preparation, it's still endlessly harmful to the gameplay. It basically cancels out what people are doing, meaning that TF2 becomes more a game of repetition, less of a game of skill. If a pyro airblasts a rocket, which he can only do to a very limited effect, he can use it to kill the opponent. Meanwhile, the effect of spamming Short Circuit is simply that the engie can keep sitting on his ass and all people can do is to constantly have the same boring fight against the same sentry.

 

People need to spend less time fighting boring sentries and more time fighting players. No matter how "mild" you'll want to make the effect of the Short Circuit seem, it's now at least twice as hard to kill a sentry,

and very likely 4-5 times as hard (depending on class). Team Fortress was never meant to be man versus sentry, and the sentries aren't there as absolutes to make sure the opponents never pass, but to delay the attackers and ease the defense. Usually, sentries gets killed a lot, and if an engie does not have backup, and good demo or soldier should be able to take out a sentry (obviously, the soldier will have a much harder time if the engineer is using Rescue Ranger and doesn't have to expose himself to repair the sentry). However, Short Circuit changes the role of the sentry from a temporary obstacle to a permanent nuisance. This becomes even worse with offensive sentries, where the defenders often don't rally together to kill the sentries.

I don't want to get into all the other stuff you said, but am greatly confused by this. Sticky camping is a legit strategy that has been around since the game was created. The Sticky Launcher is not something that was added to the game after launch and has not received any significant changes either.

With out reading patch notes for the last 6 years, I am sure the arming time and/or damage may have been balanced over the years, but no major changes. It is one of the few original weapons that has never been replaced by a significant alternative. The Scottish Resistance is situational at best and has never been popular.

So I am struggling to understand how Sticky camping has hurt the game? It's the entire purpose of the Sticky Launcher, place them at a strategic point and wait for someone to show up and blow them it bits. There are other ways they can be used, but the remote destination makes camping their entire purpose.

Now, if you are referring to spawn camping, the strat is still valid and Demos are hardly the only class that can spawn camp.

This is obviously off-topic, but I still don't want to leave your question unanswered. There is a general distinction to make. While sticky camping is generally annoying, it's not always seriously harmful to gameplay, while the same cannot be said for the new Short Circuit. It comes down to the map. If you have a wide open map, with action all around, some newbie sitting in a corner of the map with his stickies can fairly easily be ignore. But when maps have important choke point, a single low-skill sticky camper can actually hold up all the action, causing the gameplay to develop from varied with a lot of action to repetitive with very limited action.

 

I experience it often on 2Fort. Just like being a sniper is the easy choice for people new to the game because you can kill people without ever having to fight them, it's also an easy choice to be sticky camper for people who don't feel confident actually fighting their opponents. You can sit away from the action, ramping up a lot of kills without ever having to participate in the game. So, some people join the Lotus 2Fort server and just sit on the grill (in the front entrance of the base) and camp it for hours. They literally do nothing else. They can plant the stickes on top of the grill where none of their opponents can get to them. They wait for people to walk under the stickies and detonate them. Soldiers have a chance to spam at the sticky camper, but it's normally to too hard for the camper to dodge. Only sticky demos really have a good chance of fighting the sticky camper by counter sticky-camping them. The rest of the classes just have to hope the the sticky camper has fallen asleep if they want to pass. Now, a team with many attackers might be able to simply sacrifice one or two players to the sticky camper to allow the rest to run by. However, the sticky camper will often not be alone. There might be a sentry, there might be one or two soldiers cross-spamming. If there are other defenders, and the demo can kill the first player who enter the front door, he can keep killing the rest while they are being oppressed by the fire of his fellow defenders. Without the stickies, the attackers might have easily overwhelmed the defenders, but with the stickies, they die the instant they come around the corner. A really good team might beat it, but unless they basecamp, the sticky camper will be right back their, making future attacks near impossible once again. So, what happens? The attackers of the opposing team just stay outside the front door. They know that if they enter they will die, from the cross-spam if they focus on the stickies and from the stickies if they try to focus on anything else. So, instead of having a great variation of attacking and skilled play, 2Fort has suddenly become a bunch of players spamming from inside the front door against a bunch of attackers spamming from the outside and occasionally using a futile über. The action halts to a grind, and the map, which can sometimes be so riveting and exciting to play, becomes a mind-numbing bore, devoid of skill.

 

The sticky launcher is probably good to have in the game in theory and there is no doubt it wasn't as bad when the game started and it was just a bunch of newbies running around. But when Team Fortress 2 is played as a serious game by capable player, in the game's developed state, it just ruins too much else. I get that on a map like Dustbowl it's great to have sticky spam to break the sentries, and yet I also see how it makes a superior defensive team able to easily how the attackers in their spawn for the entire duration of the round. The weapon often serves a necessary function in the game and it brings some variation to the action, but often it's too powerful in both offense and defense and server to dumb down the action because of it's simple brutality.

[JMaster299 654]

It seems to me that you just don't like the Sticky Launcher, as you have given no example how it breaks the game. It is a weapon that is intended for you to camp with, yes it can and is used offensively, but it's biggest strength is from camping. It's an area denial tool, place it around a corner, outside a door, or on a point, in order help protect what ever the objective is. There are numerous tools in game that counter the camping use of stickies, pyro air blast, shooting them with any bullet weapon or knocking them out of they way with other explosives like a rocket or another sticky.

But, if you are talking about spawn camping, and with your 2Fort reference it sounds like you are, the sticky launcher is not the problem.

[Asjo 90]

It seems to me that you just don't like the Sticky Launcher, as you have given no example how it breaks the game. It is a weapon that is intended for you to camp with, yes it can and is used offensively, but it's biggest strength is from camping. It's an area denial tool, place it around a corner, outside a door, or on a point, in order help protect what ever the objective is. There are numerous tools in game that counter the camping use of stickies, pyro air blast, shooting them with any bullet weapon or knocking them out of they way with other explosives like a rocket or another sticky.

But, if you are talking about spawn camping, and with your 2Fort reference it sounds like you are, the sticky launcher is not the problem.

 

I don't really feel like writing a reply, as you basically just ignored my entire post, only to reply "you don't like stickies". But I'd like to see  you airblast stickies on top of grill and shoot stickies faster than a demo can spam them. Trying to blast away a clutter of stickies as a soldier will often lead to the death of your teammates and the stickies now might be spread to place the demo could not otherwise get them or in a position where your teammates might not expect them. Doing so while the demo keeps spamming out new ones hardly solves that situation

 

My spawn camping example was on Dustbowl, not 2Fort. Could be on any map, really. But the example goes to show how even on Dustbowl, the map where the sticky demos are most "justified", stickies are a source of bad, static gameplay.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Asjo