Ban request Red Squirel

[Se7en 10,762]

I would like to point out that I have been harassed all day long by the following players: Breeze, [TeamO]Sense :â–· and finally one of your own recruits L-r | Redsquirel.  They kept calling me hacker and attempted on more than one occasion to ban me, this didn't succeed until a donor came in (RedSquirel) and used his "power" to start an instant voteban. I have told them to get proof and post here on the forums, but it seems that is too hard. I would like someone from staff to have a chat with this RedSquirel and maybe tell him what the procedure is so as to place a permaban on a hacker as opposed to banning someone simply because they kill you and the whole of your team are "butthurt" about it. Breeze started calling me cheater right away, even though all he does is camp (I called him out on that, probably that made him angry). Anyway, you can see proof here along with what's been said on the matter http://stats.lotusclan.com/chat/tf4?range=0&server=65

[Kerberos 3,170]

I'll get Squirl to come and throw his side on here, and breeze. 

[Ruby 9,039]

reviewing.

[+JB. 4,800]

I'm on my phone so I didn't read whole chat logs, but I read some charming stuff like "try hard hacking cunt" and "bb faggot" by breeze.. never liked the regulars way of votebanning and kicking players they think they're hacking or trolling instead of ever submitting demos and ban requests here..

 

Unrelated, just saying..

[Breeze 21]

yep there he is, as expected.

you were clearly using wallhack, no bullet spread and I wonder why you never miss a single shot.

people from Lotus know me, and they know I never cry hacker, but you clearly are one.

The reason noone could get a demo, is that he turns it off whenever someone is in spectate, thats why he said "GL getting a demo".

me and Data expunged saw it clearly, hitting a sentry for 50% health, with a scattergun from across the sewers, and destroying a full health teleporter with 1 rocket, cool trick.

you were just all OMG BREEZE IS CAMPING MUST TURN ON HACKS !11!! and I hope you get perma banned for it

It was not just me who noticed btw, the whole team was complaining.

Also your a lying about the ban attempts, that was only 1 attempt and then squirel came along who specced you...

laughing about what he wrote, wheeeeee "all he does is camp" wheeeee, so what ?

and he "called me out", keep your retarded opinion to yourself dude, nobody cares, not even irl.

so, to go short this guy is hacking clearly, everybody saw it, including red squirl, so I hope we can remove this pest from Lotus.

Thanks in advance

Breeze

Edited July 13, 2014 by Breeze

[RedSquirl 119]

A number of players commented that they believed "Rose" to be hacking, I spec'd him, it didn't appear as though he was using an aimbot (which was suggested), but he was, somewhat suspiciously, able to identify enemy positions immediately upon entering a new area - it appeared incredibly reminiscent of somebody using a wall-hack. In addition, although this is somewhat anecdotal: the shots from his Scattergun appeared to be consistent with the use of no-spread - as I said, this is just a observation and there is no hard evidence for such. I didn't have enough evidence to ban him, but I was told by a member of my team (Mara: STEAM_0:0:58102907) Rose had become incredibly abusive towards her (chat logs to follow) - this was enough for me to initiate a voteban (30 min ban) from the server.

 

A few questions for Rose:

           Please explain, in what way you were harrassed by myself, beyond initiating a voteban for abusing a player? Can you provide                evidence to back up this claim?

 

            

 I have told them to get proof and post here on the forums, but it seems that is too hard. - I do not recall having seen this request from yourself.

 

"I would like someone from staff to have a chat with this RedSquirel and maybe tell him what the procedure is so as to place a permaban on a hacker as opposed to banning someone simply because they kill you and the whole of your team are "butthurt" about it."  - You were banned for 30 minutes for being abusive. you were not perma-banned - all the "power" a donator holds is to initiate votes

 

 

Update: Chat logs

 

 

Mara: its a pretty long bit of logs so

L-r | RedSquirl: that's fine

Mara: Kaiser :  I've made you switch classes 3 times, Rose.

Rose :  you what'

Breeze :  rose can you explain how you destroy a teleporter with 1 rocket ?

---

Mara: Kaiser :  Rose, you never miss. Ever

Rose :  did you step out of the base all round lecamp'

Breeze :  rose is hacking JB will ban him

Rose :  only camp like a fucking pkant

Breeze :  so ?

Breeze :  it is not hacking

Rose :  you blow

Mara: Rose :  you wouldn't know hacks it hit you in the head, camper

Mara :  "duh you camped so i need hacks to beat through the camp"

Mara :  what the fuck do you think the demo class is?

(TEAM) Kaiser :  inspect him for a min, see if he he misses any shots.

Robo4900 :  You've been rapidfiring rockets with infinite ammo for a while.

Rose :  get proof of hacks, go to the lotus forums, post, success

Rose :  lolool

Breeze :  already talking to JB, no need for forum

Mara: (we assume that he must be cheating because of his high score only 30 minutes or so into the round

Robo4900 :  176, no way.

Mara :  its bullshit

Mara: Rose :  I remember you saying something like : "suck it at the end of last game", I think you deserve to get taunted kid

Mara :  but i didnt?

Mara :  i said i didnt want to end the last game being dominated

Mara: then he accuses us stuff

Mara: Rose :  some of you camp so hard I actually have to get inside your spawn to kill you

Rose :  hardcore

Mara :  coooming from the team who has been camping our front this last entire round

Rose :  kaiser, breeze big time campers

Rose :  lefet...

Mara: thats all there is from the logs

[luop90 4,400]

If he was clearly hacking, why didn't you make a demo and post on the forums with it. "He said" "she said" stuff isn't evidence, unless it's hack advertisement.

[Kerberos 3,170]

For the record, Mara is... a funny onion. Mara accused even me of harassing her just by saying that if she married Fever, she would be my mother. How this is harassing I will never know, but it caused her to ragequit and be an emotional wreck when she rejoined. I am not entirely sure if you can use her word as rock here. But, evidence is evidence. 

 

My 2 cents. 

[Nano 7,892]

Well rosa, for a brand new account on steam you certainly seem to have some skills.  Fancy that. 

[No longer a Sexy King:^) 5,592]

Well rosa, for a brand new account on steam you certainly seem to have some skills.  Fancy that. 

 

Never heard of alts?

[fever 9,884]

I played against Rosa yesterday for a good long while, maybe an hour or longer.  If he hacks he certainly wasn't hacking yesterday.  There were no issues with the games we played.  He was also at Lotus North America practice last night and again, there was no problem. 

[No longer a Sexy King:^) 5,592]

72good4u.

 

Wait what.... kappa.

[Breeze 21]

As soon as someone goes spec, most hackers turn it off, hard to get a demo like that.

[Ruby 9,039]

thank you for your input. I'll review the evidence.

[fever 9,884]

Just an additional, at the Lotus North America practice there must have been at least half a dozen of our admins, three staff and the leader.  No on mentioned any hacks.  But that was yesterday, I'm just telling you what I know about Rosa, who is clearly an experienced player on a new account.

[Ruby 9,039]

"Breeze : rose can you explain how you destroy a teleporter with 1 rocket ?"

TF2 client hacks can not modify the damage dealt by a weapon. In some cases, they can make the weapon crit when it shouldn't (more precisely, fire the weapon in the precise moment the TF2 random function decides that the shot would be a crit), but crit damage does not apply to buildings.

"Robo4900 : You've been rapidfiring rockets with infinite ammo for a while."

Same as above, TF2 client hacks can not alter fire rate or ammo values.

"cross, he had no spread and wall hack going"

Wall hacks are in the majority of cases detected by our server plugins and as such would have triggered an appropriate message to the admins. The plugin is updated regularly as well, so most wallhacks will trigger an alert.

Rosa: I've personally spectated Rosa twice (on my alt and on my main) and concluded that they were not using wallhacks or other sorts of hacks (spread removal, aim assist). Rosa is also an alt of another account which seems to have a tad bit more experience than 20 hours of tf2. Since things in TF2 change all the damn time, it's possible that they have installed such utilities in the meantime - in that case, you're expected to spectate and submit a ban request or call an admin who will do so for you. Even if hacks are turned off while someone is spectating the person, there will be a noticeable drop in the person's "skill", and as such using bots will be apparent. If there is any evidence of them hacking, you know what to do.

Breeze: I've played with Breeze more times than he thinks, and while he's pretty vocal sometimes, I'd like to think he has good intentions. However, things like this:

really shouldn't be coming from a well known regular. I won't ban you, because, in the heat of things, we all say things we don't really mean, but I expect of you to know better in the future.

RedSquirl: Your voteban was explained with "aimbot". Period. Whatever you might have said in the meantime doesn't matter - 90% of players will see "aimbot" and vote accordingly. As a Lotus recruit, you should know what to do when encountering someone like that, especially if they are smarter than a regular hacker - announcing it to everyone in chat will likely make them turn off hacks. Same as with Breeze, I expect of you to know better.

To conclude - no actions have been taken and won't be taken on my part for now. However, I'll keep this thread open for now. If you have something relevant to add which includes evidence we're not aware of, please do. Otherwise, there is no need to reply and your replies will just get removed, without notice.

[Mara 4]

Hi mara here, gonna start off by telling kerberos to f- off because at the time he mentioned, what he was saying was making me uncomfortable and I asked him several times to stop what he was saying. The event brought up bad memories and I left, only coming back a few times to see if he had left so i could continue gaming normally.

 

Heres what i've written out about the whole situation too in detail as well as parts of the logs. Ruby may be right on some stuff, but I might as well put in my "2 pence" too.

 

--

I joined the lotus server about 20 or so minutes before the ending of the round.

Rose, along with other blu players is trying hard to get through the sewers that we’re trying to defend. We weren’t actively attacking their side, but many still came over. Rose was one of many of those attacking us via sewers

As the near-end of the round approached I mentioned that I didn’t want to have a domination on me just as the round ended, and rose misheard me and used this against me later

It started getting dodgy after someone suspected rose of cheating, we weren’t sure what, but we mentioned how dodgy it was that he had destroyed a teleporter with one rocket shot and had shot a sentry in the sewer corner down to 50% with one shot from the other side of the sewers. This was weird because he had a standard scatter gun which wasn’t that powerful.

We thought it might be an aimbot since almost none of his shots seemed to miss whilst he was a scout, so one user went onto spectate (I think it may have been Kaiser but it could have been another user, I'm not sure) and he did in fact miss a few shots.

Despite the accusations which he never denied at any point, Rose continued to hold a grudge on us for “campingâ€, even when we were simply defending and being quite peaceful.

Breeze responded;

 

Breeze :  so ?

Breeze :  it is not hacking

Rose :  you blow

 

Robo4900 also noticed Rose had been rapidfiring shots without running out of ammo, and we wasn’t using a beggar’s bazooka, he remained with a standard rocket. Rose continued to be aggressive and rude and calling breeze a camper whilst also directing some of his responses towards me;

 

Rose :  you wouldn't know hacks it hit you in the head, camper

Mara :  "duh you camped so i need hacks to beat through the camp"

Mara :  what the fuck do you think the demo class is?

(TEAM) Kaiser :  inspect him for a min, see if he he misses any shots.

Robo4900 :  You've been rapidfiring rockets with infinite ammo for a while.

Rose :  get proof of hacks, go to the lotus forums, post, success

Rose :  lolool

Breeze :  already talking to JB, no need for forum

 

Robo4900 and I also thought he must have been cheating somehow because there was a massive jump in scores between him and he rest of his team in under 30-45 minutes, gathering up to ~230 score by the time he left (before re-joining the server again);

 

Robo4900 :  176, no way.

Mara :  its bullshit

Rose trying to get to Breeze;

Rose :  come at me brah

Breeze :  pffff baby talk

 

I was annoyed when he kept taunting me after killing me and it got a bit much, and that’s when he referred to what I said near the end of the last round;

 

Rose :  I remember you saying something like : "suck it at the end of last game", I think you deserve to get taunted kid

Mara :  but i didnt?

Mara :  i said i didnt want to end the last game being dominated

 

Rose continuing to call us, more specifically breeze, lefet and kaiser campers before properly being banned from the server via a voteban;

 

Rose :  some of you camp so hard I actually have to get inside your spawn to kill you

Rose :  hardcore

Mara :  coooming from the team who has been camping our front this last entire round

Rose :  kaiser, breeze big time campers

Rose :  lefet…

 

We later found that he may have been using a cheat called no-bullet spread or s/t that stops the scatter on shot guns and allows high-power concentrated shots from scatter guns and other kinds of guns

 

--

 

i dont know very much of the discussion but this is all i got from the chat logs and the decision to ban or not is not up to me but up to the admins and any incorrect facts concerning types or the use of cheats i can correct later. im trying to keep out of this as much as i can but this is all i have and know. it could be he's a good player, but honestly even i dont know right now.

[Ruby 9,039]

-snip-

Been playing with Rose for about an hour now, and their score did not deviate much from mine (I was on 70, they were on 110 - I'm far from very skilled). Again, you can't fool the server into thinking you have more ammo than you do - ammo management and damage calculation is done exclusively server side.

I can't confirm nor deny no-spread hack. It's possible, albeit unlikely - from what I've seen, their shots use normal spread mechanics.

[Mara 4]

Just an added note about what Rose said about breeze "getting angry about camping" - i play regularly with breeze on tf2 and i have never once seen him angry for being called a camper, and in fact finds it funny that people continue to call him a camper when all we do is defend the base. The only reason we have to "camp" is because enemy players feel the need to keep going up to us and attempting to kill us.

 

Rose's behaviour towards me, Breeze, Kaizer and [Data Expunged] was unnecessary as we did not camp in the first place anyway.

[Kerberos 3,170]

Been playing with Rose for about an hour now, and their score did not deviate much from mine (I was on 70, they were on 110 - I'm far from very skilled). Again, you can't fool the server into thinking you have more ammo than you do - ammo management and damage calculation is done exclusively server side.

I can't confirm nor deny no-spread hack. It's possible, albeit unlikely - from what I've seen, their shots use normal spread mechanics.

 

Just an observation as I am 100% neutral in this:

 

Hacks can be disabled and enabled whenever is most convenient. If this Rosa does hack, which I am not saying at all, it sounds like he/she only does it when necessary, such as to break through a camping demo-man. 

 

However, I feel if we have a strong enough case, a new ban request needs to be opened. This one is about redsquirl, and he has been "cleared" (or at least, handled). 

[Mara 4]

Been playing with Rose for about an hour now, and their score did not deviate much from mine (I was on 70, they were on 110 - I'm far from very skilled). Again, you can't fool the server into thinking you have more ammo than you do - ammo management and damage calculation is done exclusively server side.

I can't confirm nor deny no-spread hack. It's possible, albeit unlikely - from what I've seen, their shots use normal spread mechanics.

 

The reason we were a lot more concerned about Rose or the possible use of hacks was because within less than 45-1 hour, Rose had accumulated a total of ~230 points score, which was a gigantic step up from those below him in score, the top 3 listed under Rose raging from from ~150, ~120 and then ~60-70 point scores.

 

As for the no-spread hack, you will need to speak to Breeze and [Data Expunged] for that information as I was afk at the time that happened, however I did see rose shoot at a sentry near me once or twice with no change.

 

Again, I side with what Breeze and RedSquirl say about Rose at this time.

Second note to add. At one point during the session, Rosa lef the game for say around 20 or so minutes (? Correct me if wrong ?) before returning where I personally saw no change in either their attitude, however their kills and scores did slow down slightly, so I believe maybe Rosa deactivated the hacks for a certain time to remain undetected or something.

 

This is not certain completely if this is what Rosa did, but I do have an inkling suspicion that they did this.

[Ruby 9,039]

I can't really do anything behavior-wise with the chat logs provided. People do get mad in video games, and it's really just freedom of speech. If it descends into harassment, though, let us know.

Anything is possible - it's also possible that Rosa left the game for 20 minutes to make a sandwich or do some cocaine. At this moment there's not much we can do without a demo of them hacking. If you notice suspicious behavior, record a demo. That's the best possible thing to do.

At this point I feel like there's not much more to say about this ban request, so I'm going to go ahead and close it. Feel free to discuss Rosa, but in another ban request, hopefully backed with evidence more than "they might have done this" or "they might have done that".

Have a nice day

tl;dr:

[Nano 7,892]

Thanks for your feedback everyone. 

Staff are in agreement for now that no further action will be taken in this instance.