Anyone play D&D?

[D-Bee 3,448]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Obvious said:

I don't fully agree, Feves.

I agree on "we went in without a plan". I was more thinking of sneaking ahead or something, but let myself get distracted by "i go in first". Well. You don't easily say "no" to someone clad in metal that weights probably 3 times as much as you do. (And Skaila's nickname from now on shall be Zarya).

The fight between the Bard and the Rogue was coming a long time, and yeah, it did happen in the most stupid moment, but that was probably because of too much roleplay. I didn't exactly think it was a brilliant idea to backstab the bard in mid - fight, but see it from Annûn's side: guy made a bad entrance, then basically does something that damages Annûn and Greycastle from behind while bugbears are attacking from the front... my char is basically convinced this bard is a fake sent by Greycastle's Arch Enemy.

So yeah. Questions will need to be answered if he wakes up.

Erm. I meant to say "when"... >.>

 

Keep in mind that it's only the help that Roren received from the group that saved his life. He would have been killed by Dorn for sure.

You're all going to need to sit down and talk (the characters in the party) and figure out who should be calling the plays so you don't get yourselves killed. Discuss your strengths and weaknesses. Get on the same page so that you all know what you should be doing and where you should be in a fight. As for the situation with Annun and Roren...he has been helping the group, but he's also been extremely careless -which may be an alignment problem or a simple wisdom deficiency. Unless something can be agreed upon for him to do to win you all back, KoKo may have to roll up a new character. 

[koKo_ 350]

Alright in my defense both times I fucked up my spells I either miscounted tiles or didn't see Annun there, but yeah in general don't use aoe spells when the party is near the radius (Mechanically I attribute this to my trash observation skills and first time playing a spellcasting class; character-wise, Roren has never been in a party before and is pretty inexperienced/not used to fighting in a group and he is eager to prove himself *not doing too well in that regard either*). As for the fight with the rogue I could've easily ended it in the 1st or 2nd turn (could've just rendered him useless for a few turns and dragged him off into the side room to calm down) but I thought I would play in character; and then right before I was going to end it Dorn smited us with those thunderbolts 

As for planmaking, I kinda just got thrown in the middle of the encounter so I was just going along the lines of kill everything in the big room, and it didn't seem like you guys had anything else strategy-wise

[fever 9,884]

2 hours ago, koKo_ said:

it didn't seem like you guys had anything else strategy-wise

As I have already said, I'd *started* to suggest a strategy on three occassions over 30 minutes....but it was met with zero response.  How many times do you have to suggest that what your  party is doing is risky?  If we're not going to discuss stuff in future do you want me to just cast darkness and then use my double movement to run in and pick you up and move you by force?  I can do that if you want I did it today

It ended up with our main fighter being surrounded, when what I had repeatedly suggested was we should pull back, especially after Dorn had suggested a full on attack, to a point where we would be 5 of us, on 2 of them....rather than our main fighter singly tackling three of them.

I'm only mentioning this for the benefit of the group..I don't really care if you don't want to follow my advice, it's fine.  If we do ignore my advice you must understand I am going to be reluctact to throw myself mercilessly into combat to save you.  I am down with doing that, but at the end of the day I'm a monk , I'm not a knuckle dragging old school mountain dwarf...my background is quite different....yes I fight, but because of my background I try to fight smart, I'm not a maniac....admittedly I do harbor dark bloodthirsty thoughts but I intend to bring them out in other ways than just when I kill someone in battle but you'll have to wait and see for that....I'm posting my characters main points here to remind people of what I am about...maybe we should all do that so we can reflect on who we are and what we're all about?

Personality Traits: The leader of the community had something wise to say on every topic, and I am eager to share that wisdom

Ideals: Emotions must not cloud our sense of what is right and true, or our logical thinking

Bonds: Nothing is more important than the other members of my religious order

Flaws: I harbor dark, bloodthirsty thoughts that my isolation failed to quell.

 

I will see you at the next session.

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by fever

[fever 9,884]

3 hours ago, D-Bee said:

As for the situation with Annun and Roren...he has been helping the group, but he's also been extremely careless -which may be an alignment problem or a simple wisdom deficiency. Unless something can be agreed upon for him to do to win you all back, KoKo may have to roll up a new character. 

As I've said before....Roren offers the opportunity to randomly challenge the group because he's not always there....he's new to the group....I think it's great that he might be more chaotic than expected and we have to try and cope with that in game, it's challenging, random and that's awesome...it's much better than a vanilla character joining us and fitting right in.

Edited October 10, 2016 by fever
typos because dwarf

[koKo_ 350]

55 minutes ago, fever said:

I'm posting my characters main points here to remind people of what I am about...maybe we should all do that so we can reflect on who we are and what we're all about?

I like this idea. Here are Roren's:

Personality Traits: I know a story about that. Why don't you and I have a drink?

Ideals: What's the point of life if you don't live in the moment?

Bonds: Let me. I got this. (Usually don't got it but it's the thought that counts)

Flaws: Oh sorry I didn't know that would happen!

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by koKo_
Content

[D-Bee 3,448]

I like where this is going. Maybe I should require an explanation from each player at the end of each session as to how they role played these qualities? Those who cannot give examples will be denied experience? Just a thought.

It may be to everyone's benefit if we all got together and I went over how I build characters. This will be helpful in solidifying your concepts and being able to see your character in your mind's eye - which will make role playing them easier and more fun. We can also discuss skill use and the awesome power of asking questions while in character.

 

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

10 hours ago, fever said:

 

Please tell me which bit you disagree with.  I honestly don't see what I called incorrectly, in character or otherwise.  Did you find it a rewarding session where we all really thought about what we were doing?  I don't..it smacked very much of "yeah whatever".  Admittedly, if we do have a mole in the camp, I didn;t see that coming but it doesn't excuse the terrible approach we took at taking on a serious NPC.  This isn't a pop at you man, I just want to fully understand your point of view.

Mostly on the "lack of roleplaying" thing is where i disagree. Getting into the role, combined with some hasty decisions, got us into the mess.

And do remember, not everyone agrees with "talking a situation to death". Yes, it needed more planning, but that's the part not everyone enjoys - if you look/listen to who contributes to the planning phase and how, you'll see that people just get bored and do something else.

 

11 hours ago, D-Bee said:

This encounter has made it clear that the party needs a leader, much better communication, and a stronger focus on role playing your characters relationships.

Full ack on the leader, not so much on the communication - we fucked up this time, badly, for sure, but it's not like we always fucked up. Things worked out nicely before, and it's because we got too confident this time, that we fucked up that bad.

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

To be honest, i would even go as far as saying it was a much needed dampener for the group - don't get too confident, too careless, or you get your head bashed in. A lesson that is valuable in game, as it is in real life. 

 

Edit: Urgh. Have to reread everything posted since Feve's post i replied to - didn't pay attention and suddenly a shitton of posts appeared.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Dr. Obvious
Need to scroll more, as it seems...

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

10 hours ago, koKo_ said:

 As for the fight with the rogue I could've easily ended it in the 1st or 2nd turn (could've just rendered him useless for a few turns and dragged him off into the side room to calm down) 

I would've liked to see that  (my character wouldn't - one successful saving throw and you'd probably eat poison next).

 

As for the leader, another thought: a high charisma score would probably be useful, so don't even ask me. xD

 

Personality Traits: If i don't know you, i don't give a fuck about you. If i do know you, and like you, i'll do everything i can to protect you.

Ideals: People deserve to live free, without being enslaved by anything or anyone.

Bonds: Touch my friends the wrong way, and you're dead meat. Or a gurgling and screaming kebap.

Flaws: "So... you think you own these people and/or can do what you want with them? Oh, you got a proof of purchase? Can i have a look?" *sound of a piece of paper getting pinned into an eye with a dagger* "Yeah, looks legit. But i fear it's no longer valid."

[+Skaila 5,462]

Personality Traits: I have a crude sense of humor. I've lost too many friends, and am slow to make new ones.

Ideals: I do what I must and obey just authority

Bonds: I'll never forget the crushing defeat my company suffered or the enemies who dealt it

Flaws: My hate for my enemies is blind and unreasoning

 

Aka that's why I basically go in after Dorn and was ready to just tear through the bug bears to get to him. Same as what happened at the tavern. My character is lawful good, I will obey the law and it's the reason I got angry for what I saw you guys doing, but I went slightly (ahem) berserk because of Dorn. He's my biggest enemy so I'll kill him without thinking of the consequences at that point.

I know we were pretty much fucked at one point, so I was ready to charge in and pummel Dorn, probably dying too.

But I think we can learn from this. Not all campaigns need to be successful in the first try, we lived and we'll learn.

[fever 9,884]

5 hours ago, Dr. Obvious said:

And do remember, not everyone agrees with "talking a situation to death". Yes, it needed more planning, but that's the part not everyone enjoys - if you look/listen to who contributes to the planning phase and how, you'll see that people just get bored and do something else.

Agreed, I'd rather waste several minutes than several hours.  You say you acknowledge we need a leader, but I don't see how you can have a leader without more organisation, which is something you say the group doesn't want.  I don't think we need a leader personally, it's any form of plan on the bigger missions that we might need, which only takes a few minutes to discuss.

Edited October 10, 2016 by fever

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

1 hour ago, fever said:

Agreed, I'd rather waste several minutes than several hours.  You say you acknowledge we need a leader, but I don't see how you can have a leader without more organisation, which is something you say the group doesn't want.  I don't think we need a leader personally, it's any form of plan on the bigger missions that we might need, which only takes a few minutes to discuss.

Tss. I didn't say the group doesn't want organisation. I said not everyone enjoys talking topics to death. Which is the main reason why i said "i agree we need a party leader".
To cut that kind of discussions, that takes an hour or more (and yes, it was indeed a long time), short. To make the decision when we are unable to decide on which way to run. To make sure everyone is in place when needed, and not hiding somewhere because "yeah, no, you don't want to follow my advice, so i'm out"  - it's not a helpful stance, neither.

We can run without a leader, but it still means we have to go into one direction, and seriously, having a parley about that in front of the enemy gates isn't a wise decision, neither.

Also, just because you didn't enjoy it, it doesn't mean it was "wasted time". Some people were having fun. Sorry you weren't amongst them this time.

 

As DB said, there are things to be talked about next time. 

ROLEPLAYING TIME!

(I promise i won't use poisoned daggers, on no one. >.>)

 

[fever 9,884]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Obvious said:

 "yeah, no, you don't want to follow my advice, so i'm out"  - it's not a helpful stance, neither.

We can run without a leader, but it still means we have to go into one direction, and seriously, having a parley about that in front of the enemy gates isn't a wise decision, neither.

 

As I said at the time, there were far too many for me, a melee hero mostly to go up front and start taking damage from all angles...you took one hit and went down to half health.  All I could do was throw darts and after two of our party just went at each other from the start for god knows what reason I didnt want to increase the chance of friendly fire or not so friendly as it would seem between you and Koko's character (I forget his name).  How are we supposed to discuss the situation immediately presented to us if we don't discuss it where we find *edit* it?  

Edited October 10, 2016 by fever

[BloodRedWidow 3,508]

Wow, I leave this overnight and a wild discussion appears! Kudos for keeping it civil though :3

I think imma offer my thoughts here... not that they are needed now like XD

 

1) the whole retreat thing

I'm not too bothered about this because from where i was sitting, the place where we were standing was a good enough bottleneck point. With adequate healing (hur hur) and focused dps, those bugbears wouldn't have been too much of a challenge. And, the corridor had the added plus of funnelling enemies should we choose to retreat. That was pre-Dorn-the-Dork's appearance though. After that, then yeah, we totally should've ran and bolted, barricaded and blocked the door behind us XD The only reason i didn't is because i was tying to keep the party health up and keep everyone healed. 

 

2) Bard V Rogue

I'll be honest, this amused me at first, then got a little annoying. But I can see both sides of the argument. Yes, the bard entered badly by trolling a couple of players, and trolls them again the next time he's there. And yes, I realise that you were thrown in a fight with no context or a full understanding of your abilities and the (quite frankly) surprising amount of damage he can dish out. Tbh Koko, you come across as thoughtless and reckless to me. Just take your time when planning attacks - there are 6 of us in the group, not to mention enemy turns, so you've got plenty of time to plan =p

 

3) Party leader

Sure, why not. As long as it isn't me I don't mind =p 

I thought we were following Nano's leadership anyways? 

 

4) Extra point

Yup, I am definitely one of those players who definitely doesn't enjoy talking to each other to death while deciding how to deal with a simple encounter. 

Suppose thats it for now. 

 

[D-Bee 3,448]

There's no need to argue about this, you're both right ya know.

I specifically designed this scenario to be nearly unbeatable by brute force for a reason. I was hoping that Annun, Lia, or Roren, would infiltrate the fort and tell everyone what you were up against so that you all would know that a frontal assault would be pointless. But that didn't happen did it?

Here's some missed opportunities:

1) Greycastle opening up about herself and her past 

2)  getting the town guard involved

3)  spying and information gathering

4)  an "in character" discussion about how to approach this situation

So you see, talking among yourselves in character could have yielded better results. Ask questions! The more information you have, the more options you'll have.

 

[D-Bee 3,448]

You may want to read what the PHB says about skill checks (starting at the lower right hand corner of page 175). Skills like History and Insight are horribly underestimated, and even if your character isn't proficient with these two it is ALWAYS worth taking a roll to see if you can gain some knowledge which may help you and your group.

History: this is the skill that tells you about the land and people who live on it. location of forts, ruins, important battles and people

Insight: use this to determine motivation. not just for being able to tell if someone is lying, this skill can be used to predict actions before they take place and to a lesser degree determine alignment 

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

2 hours ago, D-Bee said:

-snip-

 I was hoping that Annun, Lia, or Roren, would infiltrate the fort and tell everyone what you were up against so that you all would know that a frontal assault would be pointless. But that didn't happen did it?

-snip-

I was thinking of infiltrating, but then i was thinking "wait, can Lia maybe transform into a air elemental?" (good question - , DB, can she? they're invisible, can she transform into something she can't see? ), then things escalated.

That's why i said: in future, intel first, everything else, INCLUDING a parley about a plan, later.

[BloodRedWidow 3,508]

1 hour ago, Dr. Obvious said:

I was thinking of infiltrating, but then i was thinking "wait, can Lia maybe transform into a air elemental?" (good question - , DB, can she? they're invisible, can she transform into something she can't see? )

Why yes, I think I can. I can do fire and water, why not air? 

And I often choose not to because I don't want to take opportunities away from others to get involved, ie, you and Feves sneaking :3

[fever 9,884]

3 hours ago, D-Bee said:

You may want to read what the PHB says about skill checks (starting at the lower right hand corner of page 175). Skills like History and Insight are horribly underestimated, and even if your character isn't proficient with these two it is ALWAYS worth taking a roll to see if you can gain some knowledge which may help you and your group.

History: this is the skill that tells you about the land and people who live on it. location of forts, ruins, important battles and people

Insight: use this to determine motivation. not just for being able to tell if someone is lying, this skill can be used to predict actions before they take place and to a lesser degree determine alignment 

That's something that crosses my mind quite often when we are up against someone or something...I am pretty much a noob at D&D but I am playing a hero with a reasonable amount of knowledge of fighting, dungeons, etc etc....I quite often think "How hard is that guy?", I did it when we met Dorn again in the last session....is there any kind of roll I can possibly do to give me a heads up of how powerful he might be DB?  Maybe I recognise his robes or something which gives me an inkling....is there anything I can roll or should I just be asking you the right question?  Like I said on Sunday, if we could get rid of the bugbears and someone attacked him I could then get in close and use stunning strike to stun him and also use my double magic shortsword attack.

 

4 hours ago, BloodRedWidow said:

Wow, I leave this overnight and a wild discussion appears! Kudos for keeping it civil though :3

Yeah apologies if I came across a bit strong....I can be a bit of a perfectionist at times and want everything to go like clockwork and also can get frustrated if I feel I can't really help....something for me to work on!

[D-Bee 3,448]

2 hours ago, Dr. Obvious said:

I was thinking of infiltrating, but then i was thinking "wait, can Lia maybe transform into a air elemental?" (good question - , DB, can she? they're invisible, can she transform into something she can't see? ), then things escalated.

That's why i said: in future, intel first, everything else, INCLUDING a parley about a plan, later.

I've made Lia's shapechange a bit more powerful than it would be normally, so yes she could change into an Air Elemental. I want to point out that just a little imagination and cleverness go a long way - she could have just turned into a rat and walked right in

1 hour ago, fever said:

That's something that crosses my mind quite often when we are up against someone or something...I am pretty much a noob at D&D but I am playing a hero with a reasonable amount of knowledge of fighting, dungeons, etc etc....I quite often think "How hard is that guy?", I did it when we met Dorn again in the last session....is there any kind of roll I can possibly do to give me a heads up of how powerful he might be DB?  Maybe I recognise his robes or something which gives me an inkling....is there anything I can roll or should I just be asking you the right question? 

Most of the time it just takes the right questions. You can size someone up a variety of different ways, but here's one example: Before you stands a guard. He's dressed in half plate and carries a longsword. "Okay, I wanna size this guy up" You roll on your Investigation skill and look the guard over. He's a little young for a guard, handsome but tired looking, with meticulously cared for armor and a well worn hilt on his blade - you deduce that he's extremely skilled and is most likely destined to be guard captain one day. Rolling your Insight skill, you look deep into the guards eyes and see the look of a young man that has seen too many fights - he doesn't want to have to kill you, but will if you leave him no choice. If you had failed those rolls I may have said "He has used equipment and is a little young for a guard.", which paints a COMPLETELY different picture of what this guard is all about.

[+Skaila 5,462]

Thanks DB, as Fever I'm still pretty much a D&D noob, so learning all this. every session. I've always wondered when some skills could come in handy like Athletics etc

I'll read up some more on everything and prepare better next time. I love roleplaying, but for these games I often don't speak up enough I think, I'll try to adjust that as well. As I said, everything went apeshit before things could be turned around xD

[+Skaila 5,462]

Cheat sheet regarding skills: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kS4sU3Dqaxsn4Tnac_oauDoCyqYKD9HUsAb1r6PXBFk/edit

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

10 hours ago, D-Bee said:

I've made Lia's shapechange a bit more powerful than it would be normally, so yes she could change into an Air Elemental. I want to point out that just a little imagination and cleverness go a long way - she could have just turned into a rat and walked right in

This leads to another question - i might be biased on the whole shapechanging thing based on my experience in another group i played with.

If she changes to a rat, do her hp change with that, too? What happens when she dies in that form? (yeah, maybe should've asked that before)
I'm used to this being handled the following: if you shrink into something small, so do your hp. Which means, her being a rat means she'd be vulnerable to a stone/dagger/whatever being thrown at her by a bored bugbear that wants a snack. So, i'd never let her do that alone. (nope, sorry, too risky)

I was thinking Lia and Annûn would make a good team for that kind of stuff - Lia can scout ahead for obvious stuff (guards and so on), while Annûn makes a quick map of the place and checks for traps (both things he made his money with), which would give us a good map to come up with an actual plan.

[BloodRedWidow 3,508]

5 hours ago, Dr. Obvious said:

This leads to another question - i might be biased on the whole shapechanging thing based on my experience in another group i played with.

If she changes to a rat, do her hp change with that, too? What happens when she dies in that form? (yeah, maybe should've asked that before)
I'm used to this being handled the following: if you shrink into something small, so do your hp. Which means, her being a rat means she'd be vulnerable to a stone/dagger/whatever being thrown at her by a bored bugbear that wants a snack. So, i'd never let her do that alone. (nope, sorry, too risky)

I was thinking Lia and Annûn would make a good team for that kind of stuff - Lia can scout ahead for obvious stuff (guards and so on), while Annûn makes a quick map of the place and checks for traps (both things he made his money with), which would give us a good map to come up with an actual plan.

I'm pretty sure my hp does change, but hopefully DB will clarify. When changing, I usually take whatever hp is listed on the sheet that I'm using. 

And yes, that's why i will rarely change into anything small, my stealth skill sucks XD  

[D-Bee 3,448]

5 hours ago, Dr. Obvious said:

This leads to another question - i might be biased on the whole shapechanging thing based on my experience in another group i played with.

If she changes to a rat, do her hp change with that, too? What happens when she dies in that form?

If Lia shapechanges into a rat and gets stepped on (killing her) she changes back to her normal form minus the HP she lost.