High "skill" Players

[Chamrox 0]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the higher someone is ranked, the worse of a teammate they are?

I play goldrush all of the time. During the week, at least half of the players on at any given time are ranked in the top 100. I think last night I had 10 top 100 players on my team, and we completely sucked at offense, we never made it past the first map. Nobody wanted to push the bomb. Nobody wanted to support the engineers to get a teleporter. Demos were hanging in the back laying traps, not pushing forward. At least 3 snipers.

Here are my problems with the top ranked players. (in general, some are good guys)

1. They don't push the bomb. (Unless it's the first point of the first stage of Goldrush) The bomb means death. And death means loss of precious stat points.

2. They will complain about lack of ubers or teleporters, but will not play medic or engie.

3. They will scream "PUSH THE CART", but that's for other people to do.

4. They will say "We don't need 6 Pyros" but they are also playing a pyro.

5. They will not play a different class, no matter at what cost, because, in their opinion, since they are "gods of their class" that is the best way they can serve the team.

I realize that this is a public server and people can do what they want. But the whole "I'm top 100" ego trip thing is a bit ridiculous and, if I was running a clan, I wouldn't consider a top 10 ranking worth an automatic invite.

[kuttlewug 28]

I'll agree with you that those guys should actually play for the overall objective but they're ranked way high so they've got every right to be cocky. Besides if you talk to them most are pretty easy to get along with. Respect them and they'll respect you. And if you don't like then try a different server? There are plenty of them.

[Chamrox 0]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like them as people just fine. I've been playing with some of these guys for the past 6 months now, and we usually have a good time, otherwise I wouldn't play on that server.

It just got to the point last night where I realized that getting the cart to the point wasn't the primary objective. I think my friends, worried about their ranking, basically took the night off and "stat farmed".

Have you ever played chess vs. a good opponent? I think it is a lot like that. Sometimes you get so focused on capturing a certain piece, or not losing a certain piece, that you forget the main objective.

[kuttlewug 28]

I understand you completely its just if one of those guys doesn't like what you have to say and comes on here yelling at you I gave you a warning ahead of time. BTW I suck at chess

[Rydawg 14]

meh. I've been ranked 12-20 for a long time, well least had i not gone on vacation.. And I must say at least on the stock 1 server, you are wrong. Many the people I play with are top 30 and will play what class is needed.

[Chamrox 0]

Ok, here's the scenario:

You're on the attacking team in Goldrush.

The cart is about 3 feet away from the final capture point.

The map goes into overtime, the cart's timer starts ticking down 5 seconds.

You don't know where the rest of your team is, presumed trying to make their way back from spawn, but you are within 2 seconds of touching the cart.

You are at 10% health, and there is an enemy pyro at full health sitting on the cart.

Do you touch the cart and probably die, buying your team 5 more seconds to cap? Or do you run away, let the timer expire, be secure in your end of the round donor invulnerability, and play defense?

Quite honestly? On a public server? The attitude is "screw it, I'd rather not take a death penalty".

[Plasma Waffle 0]

Yeah that is unfortunate, but it seems to be the most common with Goldrush. On 24/7 Dustbowl, 2fort, or the stock maps server, people will usually go for the objectives.

[redruM_13 17]

I thought that winning and losing reflected in these stats. I remember somewhere Mana had said so.

[Rivanor 1]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the higher someone is ranked, the worse of a teammate they are?

I play goldrush all of the time. During the week, at least half of the players on at any given time are ranked in the top 100. I think last night I had 10 top 100 players on my team, and we completely sucked at offense, we never made it past the first map. Nobody wanted to push the bomb. Nobody wanted to support the engineers to get a teleporter. Demos were hanging in the back laying traps, not pushing forward. At least 3 snipers.

Here are my problems with the top ranked players. (in general, some are good guys)

1. They don't push the bomb. (Unless it's the first point of the first stage of Goldrush) The bomb means death. And death means loss of precious stat points.

2. They will complain about lack of ubers or teleporters, but will not play medic or engie.

3. They will scream "PUSH THE CART", but that's for other people to do.

4. They will say "We don't need 6 Pyros" but they are also playing a pyro.

5. They will not play a different class, no matter at what cost, because, in their opinion, since they are "gods of their class" that is the best way they can serve the team.

I realize that this is a public server and people can do what they want. But the whole "I'm top 100" ego trip thing is a bit ridiculous and, if I was running a clan, I wouldn't consider a top 10 ranking worth an automatic invite.

Well, your rant is pretty interesting and I won't agree or disagree, but I will offer perhaps a different perspective:

I don't look at my stats nor do I care about them nor do I care how often I die (I play spy, so I die a LOT) so what I say may not even be relevant.

I play medic a lot and I enjoy playing offensive engineer on Gold Rush when I am not needed in a more aggressive role, but I've been in too many games where I feel kind of helpless as engineer and that I could help the team better in another role. For example, on Gold Rush 1 if I am sitting in the attic with my sentry gun and teleporter and the enemy has got like 3-4 snipers absolutely killing us, and I see we have no spies on our team or else our spies aren't getting the job done, I think "Crap, I could really help the team by taking out those dang snipers, I should be spy, not engineer! But if I switch from engineer then we'll lose our teleporter... crap..." So then I don't even play engineer at all for that reason.

So I tend to play the classes that are the most fun for me (ie spy) or that can help the team the most on offense (demoman or medic).

So yeah, every so often I will hear someone complain "Uh guys, we don't need 3 spies!" and I will look and sure enough, there are two other spies. Usually if that happens I will see how it goes with three spies and if we are getting absolutely destroyed and if I really want to win, I may switch to a different class, but if our team is winning with three spies, then why not, it's more about fun for me than winning at all costs. It's not about stats. If I cared about stats, I would play the stat whore class (demoman) exclusively.

[The Lorax 25]

Yeah, it does seem much more common on the 24/7 servers. I played nothing but goldrush for a few months, and that server does tend to have issues with people playing as a team. That was one of the main reasons I went back to playing on the stock maps servers, even though it destroyed my stats. Personally, I think the stock maps servers are much more competitive for a variety of reasons. I fooled myself into believing i was a good player when I was playing goldrush constantly, but I changed that opinion as soon as I went back to stock. I think it is too easy to rack up kills and good stats on goldrush, so it tends to attract the 'selfish' players.

[Mana 3,867]

I wouldn't consider a top 10 ranking worth an automatic invite.

Invite to what exactly?

I thought that winning and losing reflected in these stats. I remember somewhere Mana had said so.

Pushing the cart gives points to the player pushing, capping the cart gives points to the whole team and 5 points more to the people who capped (so say everyone gets 5 but those who capped it get 10), losing the round takes away points, winning the round gives points.

[friedrice 8]

Chamrox, you are a complete idiot.

The fact is, most of the top players tend to work together as a "squad" because they know they can relay on each other. Hence I will typically uber lunchbox or mojo over you.

Also, the fact is sometimes you need a good pyro, demo, sniper,ect. However, these classes are typically a little harder to play then engineer or medic. So, having a good medic and no good players to uber makes it worthless to uber at all, which is why you probably see people not go medic even though there are none.

Personally, I usually try to be a class there aren't a lot of. That being said, I'm not going to keep being the only medic on a team when everytime I uber someone, they do nothing or the team never helps push.

Most of the top people I've played with will do a suicide run at the cart in overtime, just to keep the timer going, but only if the rest of the team isn't too worried with hiding.

[kuttlewug 28]

Ok I'll just break this down real simple. There are (A) people who play for the team and (B ) people who play for themselves and there stats. Most people I've played with play for the team. SO if you don't like people playing for stats and yelling at everyone else over their mic then turn the volume off

Edited March 11, 2009 by podsaurus

[Rivanor 1]

Invite to what exactly?

Pushing the cart gives points to the player pushing, capping the cart gives points to the whole team and 5 points more to the people who capped (so say everyone gets 5 but those who capped it get 10), losing the round takes away points, winning the round gives points.

So that's why I see some people insist on team stacking... now it all makes sense.

[Melissia 7]

The fact is, most of the top players tend to work together as a "squad" because they know they can relay on each other. Hence I will typically uber lunchbox or mojo over you.

Yeah, and those same exact people still won't fucking heal me when I, as a spy, revolver that pyro to death in dustbowl 1 and am burning to death in the left tunnel before the gate RIGHT FUCKING IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU MOTHERFUCKING POINTSWHORE MEDIC!

And yes, it is really annoying how some medics act-- oh no, they're too good to heal a spy, the arrogant fucktards, no matter how much that spy is the very reason why the team won or why the medic survived int he first palce, or why his uber was successful, etc.

Some people may be skilled players, but they are not necessarilly good players that I'd want on my team.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Melissia

[Chamrox 0]

Mana, I had a couple of commas in that sentence. What I meant was, If I were starting a clan, I wouldn't use these stats as a measure a recruit's ability to work as part of a team.

Fried Rice, do you feel like I called you out or something? hahaha Don't worry, I can't ever remember playing a match with you, so OBVIOUSLY I didn't mean YOU. lol. And honestly I can't blame you for ubering your friends, or known people that get the job done. Since I've never played with you, I'll be more likely to uber Darth Vader, Clocks, Rumple4Skin, or Mumblipeg out the gates than you, because, like you, I know they won't stand around with their thumb in their butt while the uber is ticking away.

But that's not the point of my op. The point of my OP is that for some folks, individual stats are more important than winning the game as a team; and that, for some games, it is better to have medium skilled players with nothing to lose, than top skilled players playing too cautiously.

Fried Rice, if you're on 24/7 Goldrush tonight, look me up. I'll be happy to uber you while you push the cart. In fact, all we'll do is push the cart, stats and deaths be damned.

podsaurus, this isn't my first go round, if I turn off my volume, then I miss out on all the good stuff. Morans and 'Leets don't make me mad, they amuse me.

[Nket 16]

lets see..

1. we do not have skill or stats requirements for recruits, they can be as bad at the game as they want.

2. you are name dropping people I have never heard of.

3. I like how the worse you are the more you care about stats, this is something I see often.

4. do not assume high ranked people are stat whores, just because they know how to play the game better.

5. play to dominate, and play to humiliate.

[+Henry Spencer 117]

Yeah, and those same exact people still won't fucking heal me when I, as a spy, revolver that pyro to death in dustbowl 1 and am burning to death in the left tunnel before the gate RIGHT FUCKING IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU MOTHERFUCKING POINTSWHORE MEDIC!

And yes, it is really annoying how some medics act-- oh no, they're too good to heal a spy, the arrogant fucktards, no matter how much that spy is the very reason why the team won or why the medic survived int he first palce, or why his uber was successful, etc.

Some people may be skilled players, but they are not necessarilly good players that I'd want on my team.

I heal spies. :'(

Actually, I heal you if you're calling for a medic. If you're out of my line of sight and you don't call for a medic, how am I supposed to know you're dying? :/ That's a common complaint I hear from people when I play medic. I don't have eyes on the back of my head. Call for a medic if you're injured... I remind people of this all the time, because sure enough, some games I'll turn around to check my six and there will be someone standing there (usually a scout), on fire and about to die.

Also, scouts... [rant] DON'T FUCKING RUN CIRCLES AROUND ME WHEN I'M TRYING TO GET MY MEDI GUN BEAM ON YOU, DUMBASSES! YOU'RE JUST WASTING MY TIME AND MAKING MY JOB THAT MUCH HARDER. YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL I ACTUALLY HEAL SCOUTS, BECAUSE I KNOW PLENTY OF MEDICS WHO WON'T, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A SCOUT. [/rant]

Edited March 11, 2009 by Henry Spencer

[The Lorax 25]

2. you are name dropping people I have never heard of.

3. I like how the worse you are the more you care about stats, this is something I see often.

4. do not assume high ranked people are stat whores, just because they know how to play the game better.

In fairness to Chamrox

2 = Name dropping the top players on the goldrush servers. These guys are the lunchboxs and Tuxedos of the server. Having played a lot on both, I have never seen a lotus member in the goldrush servers, or any of the top stock players for that matter. So you probably wouldn't recognize the names anyway.

3 = Honestly, how many times have you seen people spouting the "I'm top 10" horseshit in chat? Generally you're right, but I'd say there are plenty of top 100 people overly concerned about their stats.

4 = True enough

[friedrice 8]

So that's why I see some people insist on team stacking... now it all makes sense.

Don't whine about team stacking. Just learn to play better. What a concept!

And a note to Melissa, I don't heal girls. I might get cuties. Sorry

Fried Rice, do you feel like I called you out or something? hahaha Don't worry, I can't ever remember playing a match with you, so OBVIOUSLY I didn't mean YOU. lol. And honestly I can't blame you for ubering your friends, or known people that get the job done. Since I've never played with you, I'll be more likely to uber Darth Vader, Clocks, Rumple4Skin, or Mumblipeg out the gates than you, because, like you, I know they won't stand around with their thumb in their butt while the uber is ticking away.

No I didn't feel like you called me out. I just felt like standing up for all the top ranked people because we are tired of democrats like you whining about how we are holding back everyone, even though its your own fault for thinking that your halo skills would somehow translate you to being a somewhat decent PC Gamer.

But on a side note, I'm usually on the stock 1 server only because playing the same map over and over gets boooooring. Hence why everyone hates 2fort now

[Nket 16]

And a note to Melissa, I don't heal girls. I might get cuties. Sorry

you might heal a cute girl on accident? looking kinda gay there rice.

[Mana 3,867]

So that's why I see some people insist on team stacking... now it all makes sense.

Blocking the cart also gives points, defending the intel, etc .

[redruM_13 17]

The bottom line for me is; the more I play the I better I get and it is reflected pretty well in Phycostats. I had more of a problem with the hlstats... it seemed that it was more about how long you played rather than how well you played. I think the current system works pretty good. I have had a problem with team stacking and I can change teams if I want. Sometimes I just change servers. I like the heated battles with matched teams. With all the servers Mana puts up, it's easy to find a good match on what you want to play. 10 bucks a month and a little prep, I have loads of fun everytime I play.

[h3gi 5]

In my direct response for being "one of the top players" (I'm on Spring Break, so my rank is dropping steadily from 19 when I last left it):

1. They don't push the bomb. (Unless it's the first point of the first stage of Goldrush) The bomb means death. And death means loss of precious stat points.

If there's a large cluster of enemies on it and not enough people to back me up, I will kill most of the people on the cart first, then move onto it so it will heal me as I move it and kill the rest. I am a bit of a stat whore, but winning the game takes priority (and usually leads to a more stat-rewarding game play, as it should).

2. They will complain about lack of ubers or teleporters, but will not play medic or engie.

I most always go Medic when my team has none or just one Medic. When I note that our team is lacking ubers, I'm noting that we already have three or four Medics that aren't doing their job and should therefore switch classes or play more defensively. If they decide to switch classes, I gladly assume their previous role. The same is true of teleporters; if I find inactive teleporter entrances (or worse, no teleporter entrances) after multiple respawns, I'll mention that to the team as long as there are Engineers to yell at.

3. They will scream "PUSH THE CART", but that's for other people to do.

I find myself screaming "PUSH THE CART" quite often. But more often than not, I'm either already on the cart myself, making my way towards the cart, or on the edge of finishing my uber and can't risk dying to a lesser good. It just pisses me off when the team won't move the cart two feet to the first cap of Goldrush 3, shutting off the enemy's near exit. You won't believe how many solo caps I've had there when my team won't even look at it.

4. They will say "We don't need 6 Pyros" but they are also playing a pyro.

I don't find this often. If anything, the only people I hear say this have previously established themselves as newbies to the game.

5. They will not play a different class, no matter at what cost, because, in their opinion, since they are "gods of their class" that is the best way they can serve the team.

I actually do find this often in other people. I use other people as examples and reminders to myself that I need to switch to adapt to the situation. I'll switch to pretty much any class that my team needs, and I'll fulfill my role. But when I'm the sole medic for seven losing rounds, it's time someone else took my spot.

Edited March 11, 2009 by h3gi

[Chamrox 0]

Ok, let me first apologize. I know it seems like I'm coming in here, doing nothing but complain. Every L-r player I've ever come across has been the best person on the server as well as respectful to other players. Also, the Lotus servers are simply the best TF servers on the internet.

I'm old, 35, I've played a lot of games but honestly my best days are behind me. I know I'm not the most skilled player out there but I still manage to have fun. I don't have the time or ability to join a clan, so maybe I don't really know what real in-game teamwork is like. None the less, I have fun, with every bit of it. I guess my feathers get ruffled because my objective is to win whatever map I'm on, and I know that in order for a team to do that, you have to adapt to who you have playing on your team. It's just that some guys are VERY good, but are one dimensional to a point where, if they transferred that skill to a useful class, we would win every map.

Anyway. This is ya'll's house, thanks for letting me play.

And I do like Psychostats. My buddy Barf and I have a constant war over "who is better", we give each other crap about it all the time. I don't care where I am on that board, just as long as I am ahead of him. LOL