Spying On Goldrush

[h3gi 5]

Just for fun.

[Rydawg 14]

Can't watch youtube @ work, but I would say, spy on goldrush is probbaly one my favs, my current is def spy on Egypt.

[Rivanor 1]

Nice video!

In my opinion the best spy maps are:

1 - Badwater (the perfect spy map)

2 - Gold Rush

3 - Gravel Pit

4 - Dustbowl/Steel/Egypt (I haven't played Egypt enough yet)

In other words, attack/defend maps are where the spy truly shines, especially on payload maps and especially on defense.

[Chamrox 0]

Wow, that was a quiet time on 24/7 goldrush. usually there's 32 people on with 3 pyros per team.

[kuttlewug 28]

I can only dream of being that great a spy.

[Rydawg 14]

Watched the video, not bad, looks like a low population server, which spies rule.

[Deadeye 0]

I think I was the spy who had the failstab behind you in the house lol.

[h3gi 5]

I think I was the spy who had the failstab behind you in the house lol.

Nah, it's J[something]171. No way you'd be that bad.

Thanks for the comments. It's actually Lotus Goldrush #2, just at like 6 AM. That's why it seems so empty.

[KillerKeg 10]

I played spy yesterday for the first time in a long time. With the infinite 100% cloak I can now say it takes less skill to play than a pyro.

[Melissia 7]

That's only because the team we played agaisnt had zero talent, Keg.

[Rivanor 1]

I played spy yesterday for the first time in a long time. With the infinite 100% cloak I can now say it takes less skill to play than a pyro.

The spy has gotten easier to play (perhaps a little too easy) but it isn't because of the infinite cloak.

The infinite cloak has been in there for a while, and while it does provide an advantage, it is only viable on maps like Gold Rush and Badwater with all of the full ammo crates lying around everywhere, and when the other team knows there is a spy, it's trivial for a pyro to predict where the spy is going (ie right to the ammo crates). In other words, the only thing it really does is allow the spy to run great distances cloaked instead of having to stop halfway to his destination and wait for his cloak to recharge. Another nice thing about it is if you cloak and run out of your spawn and get hit by random spam, you can run back to your locker and get a full cloak and try again instead of waiting in spawn for your cloak to recharge.

It doesn't really change the ability for the spy to get into places undetected, he's always had that, so I don't think it's that big of a change from the way the spy used to be.

And on maps like hydro that have no ammo crates, and tons of spam in choke points, it is still very hard to get behind enemy lines.

The reason spy is almost too easy to play now is because of the way they changed his backstab. You used to have to be a little away from your target to do a quickstab; if you were too close you got penalized by executing the slow stab. This meant that it was extremely difficult to stab an engineer and then sap his level 3 sentry gun. You had to practice it and stab at exactly the right time to pull it off.

Now they've changed the stab so that it's always quick. There is no challenge to stabbing and sapping anymore, you will almost always succeed. And it doesn't really matter what your position to your enemy is anymore. You can stab and it will always be quick even if it misses, so you can just spam M1 until you get the kill.

On the other hand, it's hard to buy the argument that the spy is overpowered because it's still incredibly easy to kill spies (especially for pyros).

And as long as spy remains one of the least played classes, Valve will never nerf him.

and BTW, spy still takes a lot of skill against good teams.

[Chamrox 0]

Ok, I'm trying to get 1000 kills with each class and spy is next on my list, so I'm looking for advice.

1. What is the fastest way to switch from sapper to knife (or vice versa), last weapon, or quick weapon switch? or other?

2. Stab the engie or sap the sentry? I know it probably depends on where the engie is in relation to his sentry...

3. Do any of you top spies use disguise macros?

[Rivanor 1]

Ok, I'm trying to get 1000 kills with each class and spy is next on my list, so I'm looking for advice.

1. What is the fastest way to switch from sapper to knife (or vice versa), last weapon, or quick weapon switch? or other?

2. Stab the engie or sap the sentry? I know it probably depends on where the engie is in relation to his sentry...

3. Do any of you top spies use disguise macros?

1. I have fast weapon switch enabled (so that you just press the weapon key to switch). I usually just tap the key once to switch, no need to spam it like you do when playing the heavy.

2. Stab first, then sap. With the new quick stab, this is a lot easier to do than it used to be, even against level 3 sentries.

If the engy is not near his sentry, sap the sentry, then intercept the engineer when he comes back to repair. See my video for two examples of this:

3. I don't use any macros, there is a key ('B' by default) that puts you back in your previous disguise. I hear that spy scripts are pretty handy but I've never bothered looking into them.

4. Team up with a buddy and spam-sap a sentry being repaired by an engineer while your buddy takes it down. This is one of the funnest things to do as spy IMO, and it really angers that poor engineer

[h3gi 5]

I've just gotten used to having a default two weapons for Q and being able to switch to other weapons quickly. That's why you see me spamming Revolver to Knife to Revolver in the video during cloak walks, so Q doesn't bring up the sapper when I don't need it. I tried out Fast Weapon Switch, but it didn't suit my tastes for classes like Soldier where you spend half your time reloading, where all you need to do is prime M1 through a number key when you're ready to switch back to/from shotgun. This way, you can still move freely while switching when you want instead of having to limit your movement by pressing a number key only after you're finished reloading.

And double-spying can be really effective. Besides the one-saps-the-other-stabs combo to take down an engineer encampment example, you can willingly sacrifice one or the other, so after one Spy goes down everyone lets their guard down while the other is free to stab. Even more effective is when one Spy is X2ing the bait, calling him out as a Spy so suspicion gets removed from him.

Also, when soloing an engineer/sentry, mind the sentry angle. If possible, make sure the sentry is facing away from you as far as possible before trying to stab. As with the video, if I had stabbed him a quarter second earlier, I most likely would have sustained some damage because the angle would have been closer to me and there was a wall to my left, prohibiting circle-strafing. That is, circle-strafing at the exact time where I fully uncloak would be impossible since the sentry would turn clockwise, but waiting until the sentry was facing left to stab would have caused a counter-clockwise strafing pattern, allowing me the 180 degrees to sap until I hit the wall again on the opposite side of the sentry, which is more than plenty.

Edited March 31, 2009 by h3gi

[Miyari 33]

That's only because the team we played agaisnt had zero talent, Keg.

Actually, he was probably referring to when we played Badwater. Anyone halfway decent at the game in any way can MVP as a spy on Badwater, it's so stupid easy.

[Rivanor 1]

Anyone halfway decent at the game in any way can MVP as a spy on Badwater, it's so stupid easy.

It sounds like what you are saying is that the spy has no counter on Badwater, and if so, I disagree.

More likely, the spy's natural counters (pyro and scout) are not being utilized by the other team.

[Miyari 33]

It sounds like what you are saying is that the spy has no counter on Badwater, and if so, I disagree.

More likely, the spy's natural counters (pyro and scout) are not being utilized by the other team.

No, I'm just saying it's retardedly easy to spy on Badwater because there's a lot of cover, a lot of different paths to take, and a ton of metal boxes.

[Melissia 7]

No, I'm just saying it's retardedly easy to spy on Badwater because there's a lot of cover, a lot of different paths to take, and a ton of metal boxes.

All that means is that a good team will spycheck more on that map than on other maps. We did not face off against a good taem.

And yes, I was talking about that game, too. We had /A/ and Lotus on one team, with a bunch of pubs on the other. Probably the only good player on the other team, thatI can remember, was Phantom.

[Chamrox 0]

Thanks for the tips guys!

I played for a bit tonight, it's obvious that I need practice.

[KillerKeg 10]

The spy has gotten easier to play (perhaps a little too easy) but it isn't because of the infinite cloak.

The infinite cloak has been in there for a while, and while it does provide an advantage, it is only viable on maps like Gold Rush and Badwater with all of the full ammo crates lying around everywhere, and when the other team knows there is a spy, it's trivial for a pyro to predict where the spy is going (ie right to the ammo crates). In other words, the only thing it really does is allow the spy to run great distances cloaked instead of having to stop halfway to his destination and wait for his cloak to recharge. Another nice thing about it is if you cloak and run out of your spawn and get hit by random spam, you can run back to your locker and get a full cloak and try again instead of waiting in spawn for your cloak to recharge.

It doesn't really change the ability for the spy to get into places undetected, he's always had that, so I don't think it's that big of a change from the way the spy used to be.

And on maps like hydro that have no ammo crates, and tons of spam in choke points, it is still very hard to get behind enemy lines.

The reason spy is almost too easy to play now is because of the way they changed his backstab. You used to have to be a little away from your target to do a quickstab; if you were too close you got penalized by executing the slow stab. This meant that it was extremely difficult to stab an engineer and then sap his level 3 sentry gun. You had to practice it and stab at exactly the right time to pull it off.

Now they've changed the stab so that it's always quick. There is no challenge to stabbing and sapping anymore, you will almost always succeed. And it doesn't really matter what your position to your enemy is anymore. You can stab and it will always be quick even if it misses, so you can just spam M1 until you get the kill.

On the other hand, it's hard to buy the argument that the spy is overpowered because it's still incredibly easy to kill spies (especially for pyros).

And as long as spy remains one of the least played classes, Valve will never nerf him.

and BTW, spy still takes a lot of skill against good teams.

I meant in terms of raging. I got dominated by a sniper who was standing next to 4 sentry guns so I just went up to him and stabbed him and died instantly but got rid of the domination.

[Deadeye 0]

No matter how much cover or ammo, spying still comes down to which direction the other player is looking. On Badwater especially, spychecking is going to be pretty harsh.

And that means either lots of sitting around waiting for things to cool down or a very high chance of getting killed while getting a stab or setting up for one.

The only difference on badwater is that you can get away easier than probably any other stock map out there. Now this doesnt make spy stupid easy to play, spies who suck at evasion and misleading are still going to get hammered.

But yeah I guess if your only goal was to run around badwater cloaked the whole game you could do it easier than on any other map.

[Rivanor 1]

And yes, I was talking about that game, too. We had /A/ and Lotus on one team, with a bunch of pubs on the other. Probably the only good player on the other team, thatI can remember, was Phantom.

I'm gonna go ahead and toss Phantom a compliment here. He is probably the best spy checker I go up against; One of the toughest snipers to backstab.

[Melissia 7]

Meh, anyone thinking spy is too easy to play against hasn't really tried to play spy agaisnt a team that doesn't suck. When the other team is spychecking frequently and effectively, that's when the skill of the spy player matters most. Against a team full of people who don't know how to or just aren't spychecking, yeah, it's easy, but then, that's like saying sniping is easy against a team that doesn't know how to deal with a good sniper.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Melissia

[KillerKeg 10]

Meh, anyone thinking spy is too easy to play against hasn't really tried to play spy agaisnt a team that doesn't suck. When the other team is spychecking frequently and effectively, that's when the skill of the spy player matters most. Against a team full of people who don't know how to or just aren't spychecking, yeah, it's easy, but then, that's like saying sniping is easy against a team that doesn't know how to deal with a good sniper.

Sniping is always easy until they all go spy. Even against other snipers.

[+Henry Spencer 117]

Indeed. Focus on their team as a sniper, and when they start getting pissed and targeting you specifically, move to a different spot. Wash, rinse, repeat.