"new Content For All Classes" Conjecture Megathread

[h3gi 5]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=845583

If it's tl;dr, it shows how looking through old script codes could come in effect for the announced "New Content For All Classes." It seems weapons will be "acquired" (unknown as to how), but will be randomly specialized. When I mean specialized, I mean they will be altered versions of normal weapons with tradeoff "stats", so to speak, such as 15% bonus damage paired with 15% slower firing speed. Some might even have abilities like Soloist (Gain health from damage, a la Blutsauger). These weapons will be stored in your backpack, which quite rightly has limited space. Thus, you can have a large selection of weapons for your favorite few classes, or a few weapons for all classes.

One-shotters: High damage

Two-shotters: Faster firing

Medium Range Shotgunner: More bullets per shot

Spammers: Larger clip-size

Aggressive: Higher crit-chance

Bulletmagnet: Max Health increase

Soloist: Heal on Hit

Medic Buddy: Heal on Hit Negative (hurting enemies hurts you, letting medics build uber faster)

Trapper: Chance to slow enemy on hit (would be fun on a flamethrower)

Etc.

Additionally, there are 9 hats named. They'll presumably have tradeoff stats not linked to weapons, such as affecting running speed or max HP.

Edited April 23, 2009 by h3gi

[Melissia 7]

Trapper on a falmethrower would be evil.

[The Lorax 25]

I don't know. I am kind of worried about this new direction. I have always appreciated the uniqueness of TF2, but this move towards an rpg-like system of levels and status effects has the capacity to really disrupt the way the game plays. I'm a big fan of FPS games and RPGs, but the thought of essentially combining the two makes me worry. I'm all for them increasing the possibilities of play within the game, but this is a little silly.

[Is going JDM 0]

Can't wait till I get +20 hp from caving your heads in.

[Miyari 33]

So you can repeatedly get trumped by the one guy on the server who has the best random enchantment combination on his weapon? Hahahaha.

[TheCrytek 0]

Most people are asking how to farm gold in TF2. This should help you out. I will include a list on of some of the ways of farming for TF2 gold. It is EASY! In the south, middle edge ofCP_2forts zone, nestled in the small valley, you can farm normal rock elements. These people seem to drop a lot of grey loot which vendors for 50 silver to 1.5 TF2 gold, and they drop it at every kill. What they also drop is Elemental Earth which sells at the auction house for 1-3 TF2 gold a piece. The average drop is 1 out of 17. Another way of how to farm gold in TF2, is to farm elemental slaves on the west side of PL_Goldrush mountains, for the chance to get elemental earths (1 out 15 kills). This goes for about 1-3 TF2 gold a piece on AH.

You can also use elemental exiles on the southwest area of CP_Dustbowl for elemental earths, which is also the same 1-3 TF2 gold per earth on AH. How to farm gold in TF2 is to farm in CP_Dustbowl for 30 npcs of 2-6 silver each on 3-5 minute spawn timers. Times are not often camped. You could easily generate 1-5 TF2 gold – even more if you are an AOE class. You can also farm in CP_Dustbowl, as the alliance only, for 30-40 npcs of 2-6 silver each on 3-5 minute spawn timers. These timers are also not often camped. You could easily generate 1-5 TF2 gold an hour. How to farm gold TF2? You can enter the secret scarlet monastery graveyard, in tristfall glades northwest corner of the map. This will get you a good 2 silver to 6 silver kill. Nevertheless, an AOE class can easily farm and reset the instance for outstanding 30-60 TF2 gold in an hour.

Another way of how to farm gold in TF2, is to farm Warpwoods and Deadwoods for about 2-10 silver, rare herb drops. These sell around 1-5 TF2 gold each. Living Essence sells for 1-1.5 TF2 gold each at the Auction House. On the north side of Felwood zone near the alliance flight parth person, Warpwoods are located. The Deadwoods can be located just southwest of where the Warpwoods are. An easy 40-80 TF2 gold an hour depending on AH prices. If you know how to farm gold in TF2 and if you have faster dps class, then you can easily double your TF2 gold per hour. Twilight hammer elites in Searing Gorge, is another way to farm. These elites are located west of the alliance/horde flight points. This is an easy 3-5 mageweave cloth per drop, and somewhere around 2silver to16silver per kill, with 9/10 silver, being the most common drop. You can undoubtedly make 10 TF2 gold per hour off coin drops and around 5-20 TF2 gold p/hour for the green and mageweave drops.

There are many more ways of how to farm gold in TF2. Farm the stockades in Stormwind City for easy greens and wool. It’s the best dungeon/instance to farm wool cloth because every other kill is worth 3-5 pieces of wool and there are about 100 NPCs in the instance. Don’t be alarmed when I tell you that a stack of wool can go from 77silver to 2 TF2 gold at the AH. Try farming the scarlet monastery chests and locked chests for large knapsacks. These sell for 1.25-2 TF2 gold. Occasionally, you will get a Blue item instead of Knapsacks. You usually get them once every 11th locked chest. Also, focus on the graveyard library and armory. NOT THE CATHEDRAL! Then you could easily get about 8 locked chests an hour and 10 regular ones. For this you’d need a rouge to lock pick or use blacksmithing and use Golden Skeleton Keys. This will require a 150 blacksmith skill.

[h3gi 5]

Most people are asking how to farm gold in TF2. This should help you out. I will include a list on of some of the ways of farming for TF2 gold. It is EASY! In the south, middle edge ofCP_2forts zone, nestled in the small valley, you can farm normal rock elements. These people seem to drop a lot of grey loot which vendors for 50 silver to 1.5 TF2 gold, and they drop it at every kill. What they also drop is Elemental Earth which sells at the auction house for 1-3 TF2 gold a piece. The average drop is 1 out of 17. Another way of how to farm gold in TF2, is to farm elemental slaves on the west side of PL_Goldrush mountains, for the chance to get elemental earths (1 out 15 kills). This goes for about 1-3 TF2 gold a piece on AH.

You can also use elemental exiles on the southwest area of CP_Dustbowl for elemental earths, which is also the same 1-3 TF2 gold per earth on AH. How to farm gold in TF2 is to farm in CP_Dustbowl for 30 npcs of 2-6 silver each on 3-5 minute spawn timers. Times are not often camped. You could easily generate 1-5 TF2 gold – even more if you are an AOE class. You can also farm in CP_Dustbowl, as the alliance only, for 30-40 npcs of 2-6 silver each on 3-5 minute spawn timers. These timers are also not often camped. You could easily generate 1-5 TF2 gold an hour. How to farm gold TF2? You can enter the secret scarlet monastery graveyard, in tristfall glades northwest corner of the map. This will get you a good 2 silver to 6 silver kill. Nevertheless, an AOE class can easily farm and reset the instance for outstanding 30-60 TF2 gold in an hour.

Another way of how to farm gold in TF2, is to farm Warpwoods and Deadwoods for about 2-10 silver, rare herb drops. These sell around 1-5 TF2 gold each. Living Essence sells for 1-1.5 TF2 gold each at the Auction House. On the north side of Felwood zone near the alliance flight parth person, Warpwoods are located. The Deadwoods can be located just southwest of where the Warpwoods are. An easy 40-80 TF2 gold an hour depending on AH prices. If you know how to farm gold in TF2 and if you have faster dps class, then you can easily double your TF2 gold per hour. Twilight hammer elites in Searing Gorge, is another way to farm. These elites are located west of the alliance/horde flight points. This is an easy 3-5 mageweave cloth per drop, and somewhere around 2silver to16silver per kill, with 9/10 silver, being the most common drop. You can undoubtedly make 10 TF2 gold per hour off coin drops and around 5-20 TF2 gold p/hour for the green and mageweave drops.

There are many more ways of how to farm gold in TF2. Farm the stockades in Stormwind City for easy greens and wool. It’s the best dungeon/instance to farm wool cloth because every other kill is worth 3-5 pieces of wool and there are about 100 NPCs in the instance. Don’t be alarmed when I tell you that a stack of wool can go from 77silver to 2 TF2 gold at the AH. Try farming the scarlet monastery chests and locked chests for large knapsacks. These sell for 1.25-2 TF2 gold. Occasionally, you will get a Blue item instead of Knapsacks. You usually get them once every 11th locked chest. Also, focus on the graveyard library and armory. NOT THE CATHEDRAL! Then you could easily get about 8 locked chests an hour and 10 regular ones. For this you’d need a rouge to lock pick or use blacksmithing and use Golden Skeleton Keys. This will require a 150 blacksmith skill.

Edited April 24, 2009 by h3gi

[Chamrox 0]

This thread delivers.

[kuttlewug 28]

I don't know. I am kind of worried about this new direction. I have always appreciated the uniqueness of TF2, but this move towards an rpg-like system of levels and status effects has the capacity to really disrupt the way the game plays. I'm a big fan of FPS games and RPGs, but the thought of essentially combining the two makes me worry. I'm all for them increasing the possibilities of play within the game, but this is a little silly.

I like the idea. I mean if you're the kind of soldier who just unloads all four rockets on a guy a bigger clip would mean you don't have to worry about ammo or higher damage means you don't have to unload so many rockets on somebody. I like it hope we hear more about it

Edited April 24, 2009 by podsaurus

[Chamrox 0]

To comment on the original topic:

IMO the devs are basically saying... "I really have no idea what to give the demo/soldier/spy for their unlocks, so we're just going to give every class the ability to modify any weapon any way they chooses"

It's a cop out, it's lazy, and it will ruin the game by making it horribly unbalanced.

Right now, it's you've got your guy, you've got your gun, I've got my guy, I've got the same gun. Let's see who is the most skilled.

In the future it'll be I've got my guy and my gun, but you've got a gun that is perfect for the situation and you will beat me 100% of the time because of your gun.

If they are committed to go this direction, I hope Lotus will maintain a couple of servers that will not allow unlockables, only stock weapons.

[Rydawg 14]

this reminds me of ole Mega Team Fortress. You got a set amount of money when you logge din and you had to buy the weapons you wanted. Usually I would grab a sniper rifle and a 2 types of grenades.

[friedrice 8]

On the topic of RPGs, it'd be nice when you shoot someone that a little number of how much damage you did to them floats above them. Sometimes it seems like people just won't die

[You suck and have no life 203]

Some attributes are always going to be better than others. So while there may be lots of options. The result will be most people will end up with the same guns simply because if you look at any RPG games, thats always been the case.

I think more damage will always be better than slowing someone down. Think about it. If you slow a soldier down, he can still kill you. Id rather attempt to kill him faster. Of course, the values matter. If it slows you down by 50%, I would of course pick that over an extra 2% damage (just making up numbers here to make a point)

[h3gi 5]

IMO the devs are basically saying... "I really have no idea what to give the demo/soldier/spy for their unlocks, so we're just going to give every class the ability to modify any weapon any way they chooses"

It's a cop out, it's lazy, and it will ruin the game by making it horribly unbalanced.

Maybe so for now, but they're going to have to eventually release normal achievement-based unlockables in the future. It's not like this is their end-all solution.

Right now, it's you've got your guy, you've got your gun, I've got my guy, I've got the same gun. Let's see who is the most skilled.

In the future it'll be I've got my guy and my gun, but you've got a gun that is perfect for the situation and you will beat me 100% of the time because of your gun.

It's the same as class balance; Snipers are meant to beat Heavies and Medics are meant to beat no one.

Furthermore, that's assuming a 1 on 1 nature, which, given the name of the game, is meant to be avoided. Even in situations where it's class vs. class, unlocks are already a "problem" based on your claim. Valve has been doing a good (or at least better) job at balancing weapons; a scattergun Scout could just as easily win or lose against a Fan Scout, but the ability to choose your style of gameplay is a great feature to add on to the most important aspect in given 1v1 situations: skill.

[You suck and have no life 203]

To comment on the original topic:

IMO the devs are basically saying... "I really have no idea what to give the demo/soldier/spy for their unlocks, so we're just going to give every class the ability to modify any weapon any way they chooses"

It's a cop out, it's lazy, and it will ruin the game by making it horribly unbalanced.

Right now, it's you've got your guy, you've got your gun, I've got my guy, I've got the same gun. Let's see who is the most skilled.

In the future it'll be I've got my guy and my gun, but you've got a gun that is perfect for the situation and you will beat me 100% of the time because of your gun.

If they are committed to go this direction, I hope Lotus will maintain a couple of servers that will not allow unlockables, only stock weapons.

This guy is an idiot. Considering Valve has been making constant adjustments since day one, do you really think they are going to set something out of whack and leave it that way? Even if they make it horribly unbalanced, do you think they are going to stay that way?

FYI, the changes aren't made by some 14 year old such as yourself. They are reviewed extensively by the team and the tweaks are based on statistics, something you don't understand.

Skill is always going to be 95% of the game, and gun modifiers maybe 5%. You give me the worst gun, and you keep the best gun. I'll still dominate your ass.

Edited April 24, 2009 by YouSuckAndYouHaveNoLife

[TF2guy 1]

Geeee.....hello sandman......

[Chamrox 0]

Some attributes are always going to be better than others. So while there may be lots of options. The result will be most people will end up with the same guns simply because if you look at any RPG games, thats always been the case.

I think more damage will always be better than slowing someone down. Think about it. If you slow a soldier down, he can still kill you. Id rather attempt to kill him faster. Of course, the values matter. If it slows you down by 50%, I would of course pick that over an extra 2% damage (just making up numbers here to make a point)

THIS. I agree with you even though you're a complete douchebag.

Ok, let's look at the options here:

One-shotters: High damage

I'm assuming that they're going to have the same Damage Over Time as the normal weapon. So if a normal weapon does 1 damage every 1 second, the one shotter will probably do 2 damage every 2 seconds. I'm assuming that the weapon will have a slower Rate Of Fire to compensate for the damage bump. I can see soldiers and demos using this type of weapon in a team. 1 probably wouldn't be all that useful, but 3 demos/soldiers firing in tandem could shred another team apart.

Two-shotters: Faster firing

basically same DOT but increased ROF. it'll probably do .5damage every .5 second. I guess this would be useful for people that want to just get assists and not actually kill anyone.

Medium Range Shotgunner: More bullets per shot

More bullets on a shotgun, shorter range. Probably an engie's weapon upgrade of choice.

Spammers: Larger clip-size

I'm assuming that they'll compensate for this one by tweaking the ROF and perhaps range.

Aggressive: Higher crit-chance

IMO, depending on the corresponding stat nerf, I see no reason why everyone wouldn't take this one, no matter what the class or weapon. I'm assuming that this would be a range nerf too.

Bulletmagnet: Max Health increase

probably good for heavies only, will probably be a speed nerf

Soloist: Heal on Hit

Assuming it comes with a damage nerf, and possibility of crit nerf(no crits) like the blutsauger. This would probably work the best on a heavy or maybe spy revolver.

Medic Buddy: Heal on Hit Negative (hurting enemies hurts you, letting medics build uber faster)

The first weapon type that everyone will hit delete on. I can't think of any situation where this would be the best idea.

Trapper: Chance to slow enemy on hit (would be fun on a flamethrower)

tradeoff will probably be damage. Yes, flamethrower would be interesting, can also see spy revolver being useful to enable a get away.

[h3gi 5]

Again, the list is no where near completion. There could be negative attributes they have yet to add.

From everything I've seen, randomly generated weapons will have at least two attributes: one positive, one negative. Rarer items may have more.

The trick will be finding the weapons with the right advantages for you with disadvantages you can handle.

That said, I have faith Valve will give us a system that'll allow for personal preference in customization without breaking the game.

[You suck and have no life 203]

THIS. I agree with you even though you're a complete douchebag.

Ok, let's look at the options here:

One-shotters: High damage

I'm assuming that they're going to have the same Damage Over Time as the normal weapon. So if a normal weapon does 1 damage every 1 second, the one shotter will probably do 2 damage every 2 seconds. I'm assuming that the weapon will have a slower Rate Of Fire to compensate for the damage bump. I can see soldiers and demos using this type of weapon in a team. 1 probably wouldn't be all that useful, but 3 demos/soldiers firing in tandem could shred another team apart.

Two-shotters: Faster firing

basically same DOT but increased ROF. it'll probably do .5damage every .5 second. I guess this would be useful for people that want to just get assists and not actually kill anyone.

Medium Range Shotgunner: More bullets per shot

More bullets on a shotgun, shorter range. Probably an engie's weapon upgrade of choice.

Spammers: Larger clip-size

I'm assuming that they'll compensate for this one by tweaking the ROF and perhaps range.

Aggressive: Higher crit-chance

IMO, depending on the corresponding stat nerf, I see no reason why everyone wouldn't take this one, no matter what the class or weapon. I'm assuming that this would be a range nerf too.

Bulletmagnet: Max Health increase

probably good for heavies only, will probably be a speed nerf

Soloist: Heal on Hit

Assuming it comes with a damage nerf, and possibility of crit nerf(no crits) like the blutsauger. This would probably work the best on a heavy or maybe spy revolver.

Medic Buddy: Heal on Hit Negative (hurting enemies hurts you, letting medics build uber faster)

The first weapon type that everyone will hit delete on. I can't think of any situation where this would be the best idea.

Trapper: Chance to slow enemy on hit (would be fun on a flamethrower)

tradeoff will probably be damage. Yes, flamethrower would be interesting, can also see spy revolver being useful to enable a get away.

Your hypothetical garbage means nothing without actual numbers of the stat bonus itself. I would take any TYPE of bonus over any other TYPE bonus given that the bonus is HIGH enough. I would take a speed bonus over damage bonus, if I run +10000 miles an hour vs doing +10% damage. I would take an HP bonus over a crit bonus if I get +10000 HP vs +10% chance of crit. You see how the numbers matter just as much if not more?

So your speculative garbage means nothing when you don't know the bonus percent. Which obviously you dont. Since you dont work at Valve because you are too stupid.

[boywonder03 2]

I don't think you guys are taking into consideration that there are also "negative" modifiers.

I'm gonna toss this out there.

Maybe some good things will come at a... well... cost?

Say for example:

A larger clip for a soldier (1 extra rocket) comes at a cost of 5% damage reduction.

Or a "HUGE CLIP!" for a soldier (4 extra rockets) comes at the cost of 20% damage reduction but slows soldiers down to "heavy" speed? (or maybe no crits and less health?)

The first will probably be a more common item while the later might be a "rare" item because of its extreme value changes (even if it isn't that good).

[kuttlewug 28]

Right now, it's you've got your guy, you've got your gun, I've got my guy, I've got the same gun. Let's see who is the most skilled.

In the future it'll be I've got my guy and my gun, but you've got a gun that is perfect for the situation and you will beat me 100% of the time because of your gun.

Just because someone has a better weapon doesn't mean they know how to use it with the best ability. Lets say I'm fighting a marine who has an assault rifle and I have a tank. I clearly have the better weapon but since I don't know how to use it properly and effectively then it doesn't do me much good even though it's clearly better does it? (terrible match up I know tank vs. rifle? lol)

[Chamrox 0]

...snip... do you really think they are going to set something out of whack and leave it that way? Even if they make it horribly unbalanced, do you think they are going to stay that way?

FYI, the changes aren't made by some 14 year old such as yourself. They are reviewed extensively by the team and the tweaks are based on statistics, something you don't understand.

Ok, Valve would NEVER make the game horribly unbalanced.... I got it...

..snip...I would take a speed bonus over damage bonus, if I run +10000 miles an hour vs doing +10% damage. I would take an HP bonus over a crit bonus if I get +10000 HP vs +10% chance of crit. You see how the numbers matter just as much if not more?

Oh noes! Weapons with insane bonuses? That would make the game... um... unbalanced? No? But... you just said that they would NEVER make the game unbalanced....

You may wanna change brands of steroids meathead, the one you're using now is rotting your brain.

[Rydawg 14]

Ok, Valve would NEVER make the game horribly unbalanced.... I got it...

Oh noes! Weapons with insane bonuses? That would make the game... um... unbalanced? No? But... you just said that they would NEVER make the game unbalanced....

You may wanna change brands of steroids meathead, the one you're using now is rotting your brain.

This made me laugh

[You suck and have no life 203]

Your hypothetical garbage means nothing without actual numbers of the stat bonus itself. I would take any TYPE of bonus over any other TYPE bonus given that the bonus is HIGH enough. I would take a speed bonus over damage bonus, if I run +10000 miles an hour vs doing +10% damage. I would take an HP bonus over a crit bonus if I get +10000 HP vs +10% chance of crit. You see how the numbers matter just as much if not more?

Ok, Valve would NEVER make the game horribly unbalanced.... I got it...

Oh noes! Weapons with insane bonuses? That would make the game... um... unbalanced? No? But... you just said that they would NEVER make the game unbalanced....

You may wanna change brands of steroids meathead, the one you're using now is rotting your brain.

Exaggerated to make a point. You obviously failed to get the point.

You go into deep discussion about the Type of bonuses which can cause imbalance. I say no, you have to take the % bonus in consideration because without it, its pointless. Dumbass. Give it up. You not gong to win. I'm both better at you in TF2, and smarter than you in real life. So please, don't respond any further because you lose.

Edited April 24, 2009 by YouSuckAndYouHaveNoLife

[Chamrox 0]

Ok Juice, I get it now, can't believe how slow I was on the pickup. You've won this round. Just don't celebrate by slapping your girlfriend around like you normally do.