Serpent Vs Dragon Turtler

[[{BeatZ}]-BIG_aLvZ- 5]

wat did i say kill tha damm monument and thatz tha only way...

or there is another way.....

ne1 want to know my secret DF defense?

[IndominusRex 13]

Ragereaver meatn geisha.

oh alvz, 4 to 5 raiders won't burn monument down. Not even with fire upgrades. That was what Ben thought, and i proved him wrong. He could not burn my monuement down. Not even a tower. It is ezier to burn a tower down than the monument, how can you burn down the monument if you cannot even burn down a tower. A good players always build a well or 2 near towers townsquare and keep and monument. In general, wells near any building that gives you advantages. If you are going to send raiders, it is a waste of resources and time. It is better to send a group of upgraded cannons to demolish the monument if you can get passed those towers and deep into your enemy's base.

18618[/snapback]

Oh my God, I only use 2 raiders and 3 spirit warriors, remember? Or you just thought that Spirit warriors are raiders?

[IndominusRex 13]

o yes kill em dragons, i cant explain but i mite be able to do it, b4 they momentum but after they got keep , at momentum is kinda up to how ur oponent use his momentum, no good dragon player will lose after got momentum

18843[/snapback]

I wonder why sometime I can still won Lighty's dragon in 1v1 even he have Monument? I must be doing something that I don't know or Lighty have mistake.

[K-DaSh 0]

I wonder why sometime I can still won Lighty's dragon in 1v1 even he have Monument? I must be doing something that I don't know or Lighty have mistake.

19070[/snapback]

Prolly because ur dragon and u use spirit too, or maybe ur lotus and u use darkcanopy, anyways K-Swiss never have been a good dragon or serpent player, her/his skills excels with lotus and wolf.

[[{BeatZ}]-BIG_aLvZ- 5]

lolz his/her tehe....

hey ben what clan were u using against lightys dragon?

[IndominusRex 13]

SerpeNt always... When he use lotus, my serpent lose.

I already won him another game yesterday.

[K-DaSh 0]

wow this discussion is kinda old and still none is giving a clear idea to kill the dragon turtling with serpent, cmon some "pros" give tips or fav strat to counter or prevent the dragon turtling

[Darky 1]

i think u should use serpent rushing ability as an advantage... dragon always suspecting u to rush. if u dont rush, u can simply out number em. when ur opponent have momentum, most likely that he dont have no army, i think u can outnumber him then with mass smoke

[K-DaSh 0]

i think u should use serpent rushing ability as an advantage... dragon always suspecting u to rush. if u dont rush, u can simply out number em. when ur opponent have momentum, most likely that he dont have no army, i think u can outnumber him then with mass smoke

20346[/snapback]

yeah b ut most of times a good dragon player always make mounted geishas, so theyr trample ability would rape canons very bad...not just canons shud be atackin the dragon, a group of mounted fan geishas and some ronins shud be fine, also dragon towers with archers means troubles for mass canon strat, the point is :dragon turtlers tends to build the counter units for canon stomp (archers fully upgraded and mounted geisha who inflicts blunt damage with trample), also towers thats total ownage for canon massers (but its true massin canon is kinda the only way to outnumber dragon army)

[Darky 1]

i think cannon would work because it can destroy building one... and the area damage is big too... with big big number of cannons they can take down geisha b4 they reach u. but u must be aware of horse geisha b4 they stop u because 2 stomp from those horse geisha and all is down

[Lord Kenji Oja 0]

Make sure you have Steel Cannonballs researched as well. Those little dandies can tear through ranks of enemies and cause massive damage to Buildings. And they still cause damage when they're bouncing on the ground, too!

[K-DaSh 0]

Make sure you have Steel Cannonballs researched as well. Those little dandies can tear through ranks of enemies and cause massive damage to Buildings. And they still cause damage when they're bouncing on the ground, too!

20570[/snapback]

Steel canonballs upgrade doesnt works, when u get the upgrade canoners keep doing the same damage to buildings that they used to inflict when they were without steel canonballs. Some ppl says canoners already have the upgrade equiped when they come out from training, and other ppl says the upgrade just dont works, the point is with or without steel canonballs upgrade, canoners keep doin the same amount of damage to buildings

[{HeRo}GeneralDS 4]

hmm i would try as serpent to build up as many yin points as possible, then begin training yin blade ronin along with raiders and cannoneers...also try to brush fire an enemy early so as to slow down rice production drastically, also if they have monument then hit "it" first "then" the towers and other stuff...also steel cannonballs does do a tiny bit more damage to enemies, and when i played against the AI the upgrade did do some more damage to buildings, but not nearly as much as sledgers with petrified wood...all in all just mix yin blade ronin, cannoneers with either mines or smoke bombs (i try to mix it up so i can place mines on the enemy perimeter and then trick their units into running over them, if they have samurai or kegs then they are history because i noticed that both kegs and samurai are very weak to explosive attacks...try getting a few muskets on a keg and the keg will usually die quickly, especially with vital points[increases damage done by musketeer gunfire]) and have the raiders with caltrops/brush fire combo, also if there are alot of woods near ur base then use brush fire to mow them down in one hit...

many people tell me not to get brush fire, but i know that it can be a good delaying tactic if u manage to keep ur raiders alive, just train quickly and get a thieve's guild and u may be able to delay them from getting major buildings up like towers or TS or keeps, and especially the dreaded monument. also if they do have monument then get a few raiders with darts and magnesium torches learned and then burn down the cursed building, then take out towers, then peasants and their huts, and last kill their army...killing off the last peasant and peasant hut means that they can't build anything which means that their army is good as dead...

also can someone verify for me that muskets attack with explosive? i noticed that their normal attack sometimes causes an explosion on an enemy and i just need to make sure that they hit with explosive...PM me is u have it verified..

[K-DaSh 0]

hmm i would try as serpent to build up as many yin points as possible, then begin training yin blade ronin along with raiders and cannoneers...also try to brush fire an enemy early so as to slow down rice production drastically, also if they have monument then hit "it" first "then" the towers and other stuff...also steel cannonballs does do a tiny bit more damage to enemies, and when i played against the AI the upgrade did do some more damage to buildings, but not nearly as much as sledgers with petrified wood...all in all just mix yin blade ronin, cannoneers with either mines or smoke bombs (i try to mix it up so i can place mines on the enemy perimeter and then trick their units into running over them, if they have samurai or kegs then they are history because i noticed that both kegs and samurai are very weak to explosive attacks...try getting a few muskets on a keg and the keg will usually die quickly, especially with vital points[increases damage done by musketeer gunfire]) and have the raiders with caltrops/brush fire combo, also if there are alot of woods near ur base then use brush fire to mow them down in one hit...

many people tell me not to get brush fire, but i know that it can be a good delaying tactic if u manage to keep ur raiders alive, just train quickly and get a thieve's guild and u may be able to delay them from getting major buildings up like towers or TS or keeps, and especially the dreaded monument. also if they do have monument then get a few raiders with darts and magnesium torches learned and then burn down the cursed building, then take out towers, then peasants and their huts, and last kill their army...killing off the last peasant and peasant hut means that they can't build anything which means that their army is good as dead...

also can someone verify for me that muskets attack with explosive? i noticed that their normal attack sometimes causes an explosion on an enemy and i just need to make sure that they hit with explosive...PM me is u have it verified..

20614[/snapback]

hmmm sounds good but as i said b4, upgraded archers means total ownage for canons and for raiders, if u wanna burn, then u gotta send like 6 or 7 full upgraded raiders, or archers and arah will rape them. Now ronin is pointless cuz asap ur enemy engages with u in battle he will release the dragon fire, and ronin die fast vs the magic damage, the olny ones who has a chance for surviving the dragon fire are canoners, then i think massing smoke canoners necro and heros such shinja and a lot of healers are they key for this, now that u mentionated wearing some mines is a good idead cuz some players like to mass archer with sams, and sams take very low damage from blunt, so mines would be total ownage for them

[][-AN-][-Ragereaver 0]

hmm i would try as serpent to build up as many yin points as possible, then begin training yin blade ronin along with raiders and cannoneers...also try to brush fire an enemy early so as to slow down rice production drastically, also if they have monument then hit "it" first "then" the towers and other stuff...also steel cannonballs does do a tiny bit more damage to enemies, and when i played against the AI the upgrade did do some more damage to buildings, but not nearly as much as sledgers with petrified wood...all in all just mix yin blade ronin, cannoneers with either mines or smoke bombs (i try to mix it up so i can place mines on the enemy perimeter and then trick their units into running over them, if they have samurai or kegs then they are history because i noticed that both kegs and samurai are very weak to explosive attacks...try getting a few muskets on a keg and the keg will usually die quickly, especially with vital points[increases damage done by musketeer gunfire]) and have the raiders with caltrops/brush fire combo, also if there are alot of woods near ur base then use brush fire to mow them down in one hit...

many people tell me not to get brush fire, but i know that it can be a good delaying tactic if u manage to keep ur raiders alive, just train quickly and get a thieve's guild and u may be able to delay them from getting major buildings up like towers or TS or keeps, and especially the dreaded monument. also if they do have monument then get a few raiders with darts and magnesium torches learned and then burn down the cursed building, then take out towers, then peasants and their huts, and last kill their army...killing off the last peasant and peasant hut means that they can't build anything which means that their army is good as dead...

also can someone verify for me that muskets attack with explosive? i noticed that their normal attack sometimes causes an explosion on an enemy and i just need to make sure that they hit with explosive...PM me is u have it verified..

20614[/snapback]

You are talking about your experiences with beginners, your strategy wouldn't work at all against good players.

K-Dash: Dragon fire is explosive, not magical. A ronin survives it, but it's still pointless to mass them. Because 1-2 dieing samurais can/will take out a lot of hurted ronins.

[cptheslayer 2]

who wants me? am i the most wanted in br world?

ok, listen carefully and correct me politely.

Do not listen to alvz's idea about taking down wells first b4 towers. peas always can rebuild well. if you send cannons to kill well and raiders to kill monument, then you are as stupid as i can never be. let say a small group of raiders and cannons can never take down monument. some pple suggested to send a bout 7 cannons, even after those 7 cannons succeeded taking down the monument, dragon is still better since it has more units and towers. of course, monument can be rebuilt within seconds.

ABout alvz saying that monument has to be built outside of the base or in the outer side of the base. this is so untrue. well it might be true for some players, but for me and other players that i consider to be good, i can always destroy those basics buildings and rebuild them somewhere else and leave the space for the monument and keep. Or we can do this without destroy any building. Of course you have to be a good resourcer. For example, pferd and I did build keep and monument any where unseen by enemy. once it is seen, we destroy it and rebuild it in our base for safety. of course we need to destroy some buildings. but we can always rebuild them fast cuz we never run out of resources in long game.

DF does explosive.

ok, here is my favorite strat against dragon. if you want to fight dragon face to face in dragon's base, you must be ...something i cannot described in words. my favorite strat is that i divides my army into 2 or 3 groups in different places. i send one group manily are cannon in one side of the map and blastshot or snipers(i prefer blastshot) in the other side of the map. i get some mug with my blastshot. a few raiders with caltroop. and about 6 mounted healers in the middle of the map. so now i have my units all over the map. of course i have to send my bandit spy first. and i always can do this. however my spy is often found. but i don care much about the life of my life cuz my spy has signed his life for the job. b4 my spy is found, i am always aware of my opponent's action. and i know where to hit and run, burn and run, and where to mug. i often send in my sprit warriors first and follow by my blastshots to kill towers or dragon units. or send my cannons to attack towers on the hill. since i can see my opponent, i can hit and run without much loss to my army.

i send my groups to the middle of the map only after i lay some bombs in my base for defense. i only need to defend the hill since i will have lots of resources and a second set of training buildings on the hill side. Besides it give me height advantages. Now as i put my blastshot in the left middle and healers in the middle and cannons in the right middle, and my spy allow me to see my opponent, i can pretty much have much fun doing hit and run. if dragon decides to try to go to the middle, then you will know that and you can come up with a plan. for me, if dragon goes to the middle middle, i will send in my cannons to attack the right side base, if i can, i will go for the monument. if dragon turns back, i will smoke them and retreat. of course, i can see my opponent, so i can use my mounted geisha to trample dragon mounted geisha first hopefully. as i am retreating my canons, i send in my blastshots to attack the left side. once my cannos safely retreated and i see my oppoents' units are running to the left side to attack my blastshot, i will just retreat. of course some of my units will die but that does not matter cuz more units are being produced. now if the dragon uses df, then you still have more than half of ur army to defend ur base. so ... to be continued.

[NekRoManT 0]

What to play against the Dragon it would be necessary to attack and to not give quickly it to develop, and itself quickly to cause nekro and all rest

[Speedy 11]

Did you use a translator to say that Nekro? It looks suspiciously like a translators work..

[NekRoManT 0]

and what now ???

if i bad know english language ???

[FIRE4 9]

Hmm who sayed Serpent Clan is for face to face on the battlefied? Even if face to face you can easly lure the sams in a mass swordsmen (with GS). When there are no sams ur ready to go(btw the dragon player mey panic when he see his sams falling 1 by 1 and use the monument. I say MAY). Even if he doesnt use it send 3-4 ronin to the towers and let the archers get busy while ur raiders go and burn some rice and huts. The swords would be about 20 so you have atleast 10 Muskets with BS and few healers. And the towers are done for.(BTW if the sams are more then swords dont forget to put muskets in back without Snyper. When the raiders are in the base dont forget to put fire on the monument so the player be busy. Remember not to send ur muskets until he uses the monument! If he has a lot of sams he wont have a lot of archers! meanwhile you must be a great noob if you dont have heroes. Use them to kill peasunts and the archers down (utara is great if she strikes in the middle of the "mass" archers) if the towers arent close to the rice. If he still doesnt use the monument, keep spawning heroes and swords and place the spawn points or whatever they are called on the enemy base. BTW i forgot about the Necromancer! You can use him somewhere in the enemy base where the towers have no sight and keep him spawning S Warriors. So if he still doesnt use the Monuments charge then continue with this drill and kill him slowly. When the towers are gone start makeing raiders. If he uses the Monument, bad for him. You can use now ur Muskets and his base is gone for seconds!

BTW you didnt say about what map we discus! I havent try this strategy but i think it would work.

[Terry 0]

I would say the best clan that i would wanted is serpent it will cost damage to the enemy when u smoke snipe, and mug with nekro and vet its good against healers and whirl

[Samuronin 2]

Hmmmm, since the Dragons Monument uses 3 Yang, one way to defeat an opponent who depends on it is not to give him a chance to have 3 Yang as soon as possible, set up your base defenses ( Snipers, Smokes, Caltrops and Mines) , as for the Samurais, use Ronins with Yin Blades, they own Samurais.

[True CobraKhan 1]

Since it will be impossible to avoid getting hit by the monument at some point in the game - your only chance is a divided army and good micro. And this tactic doesn't apply to just monument. It also applies to Lotus - massed sc, drag whirl and wolfbite. To do max damage all these BG's need your units very compact.

Distraction and decoys I guess to put it simply. Get them to waste the monument.

[Samuronin 2]

I agree with CobraKhan, use distractions..... nuff said

[Petar 5]

Ummm OK IMHO It depends a lot on the map... If the dragon turtle is on top of a hill with only one way to get to him and there are 4 towers on the entrance and dragon monument.... the situation looks grim indeed lol. On the other hand if you can enter from more than 1 place there may be a way... If you manage to invade him at 1 time with two or three groups of soldiers few witches can do a good job on the towers (however watch for the stun lol) It also depends a lot on the army, single dragon monument means nothing... army with it means something So try to keep the things above in mind and making anti soldiers of his and maybe you can win. I say it again it depends on a lot of stuff so no one can tell what exactly will happen. One more thing Great importance has the populace. What pop you play with ?