Donor Abuse

[luop90 4,400]

Player- Chuck.Norris. approved

Steam ID- STEAM_0:1:29528122

Comments-

Started a votekick against a medic healing a sniper. Appearently didn't like the idea that Walkingfire could heal me Long story short started a kick with a reason of "AFK/Idle" (He was neither of the two) and the kick went through and he was gone. Since it was a full server and a popular one, someone instantly joined afterwards.

Server: East Coast (x33) 24/7 2Fort Server around 6:30 PM (Mountain Time)

Screenshot proof-

http://i.imgur.com/DQG5ngR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CrPl6T2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vT1csMa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3n7pl80.jpg

[Climhazzard 654]

So he votekicked walkingfire ONLY because he was healing you?

I don't like it, but seriously, a medic can be more useful elsewhere.

However, I do feel that it's not a valid reason to kick someone. They may have been new, or wanted some sniper assists, what have you.

Donor abuse is something only staff can handle. We will have to wait until a staff member weighs in.

[luop90 4,400]

So he votekicked walkingfire ONLY because he was healing you?

I don't like it, but seriously, a medic can be more useful elsewhere.

However, I do feel that it's not a valid reason to kick someone. They may have been new, or wanted some sniper assists, what have you.

Donor abuse is something only staff can handle. We will have to wait until a staff member weighs in.

Yeah it ONLY because of him healing me. Yeah it could have been useful in other areas but we where rolling the other team and I have yet to find out if there is a medic cap (we had 2 at the time) One of the screenshots shows another donor at the time yelling at him but he didn't do anything about it. Most of it was over Mic so you can't really screenshot that.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

According to your screenshots, multiple other players in the server were complaining that the medic was only pocketing that one sniper. If he was doing nothing else, that could equate to idling in my book, since he's not even attempting to be useful to his team. He has enough hours in TF2 to know better. According to Chuck.Norris chat logs, I don't see the votes being done repeatedly, nor do I see anything else questionable in them. Unless he was spamming the votekicks, and he wasn't, I wouldn't call this donor abuse. He has a right to start a vote just like anyone else can for what appeared to everyone to be intentional griefing/uselessness. The fact that his request starts the vote faster than others is a side effect of donating to Lotus, but he wasn't abusing that fact at all. One person can't vote a player off anyway. The rest of the server voted him off after voicing complaints to him.

[- Mike - 2,728]

Anyone saying a medic pocketing a sniper being useless doesn't understand how good a pocketed sniper can be.

Also, people normally just push whatever number comes up (which is a reason why numbers greater than 4 should be used for voting). I mean, no one has ever abused the vote system right?

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

Also, to the OP, if someone is abusing/harassing other players over the mic, you can record a demo of it to report it if you think it merits more attention. You can also request a !votemute if they're disruptive, which will force them to either stop or have to type their abuse into the chat, which can then be found in the chat logs.

[luop90 4,400]

According to your screenshots, multiple other players in the server were complaining that the medic was only pocketing that one sniper. If he was doing nothing else, that could equate to idling in my book, since he's not even attempting to be useful to his team. He only has 3 days on TF2, so he might just not know better, but from the average player's point of view, that kind of play can seem deliberate. According to Chuck.Norris chat logs, I don't see the votes being done repeatedly, nor do I see anything else questionable in them. Unless he was spamming the votekicks, and he wasn't, I wouldn't call this donor abuse. He has a right to start a vote just like anyone else can for what appeared to everyone to be intentional griefing/uselessness. The fact that his request starts the vote faster than others is a side effect of donating to Lotus, but he wasn't abusing that fact at all. One person can't vote a player off anyway. The rest of the server voted him off after voicing complaints to him.

It was really only 3 people who where complaining, two of them being donors.

And as Mike said most people just press whatever number comes up first to just get rid of it. The excuse for kicking that he had was Idle, and Walkingfire used the chat saying that he wasn't idle so if they read chat they would have voted no but whatever. I was more saying it on the fact that he started a votekick that really didn't have a legit reason behind it. Not that he was spamming it until people finally voted yes. Either way it was more of a headsup saying that votes are being started without a legit reason.

[Sphagnum Peat Moss 748]

Idling is different from afk. Just because someone is typing doesn't mean they're not idle. Lots of people type trade spam and sit around trading, which is being idle, but not afk. If he truly was doing nothing but standing in a corner pocketing a sniper, then that sounds very idle to me and I wouldn't consider the votekick reason to be illegit. If 3 other people in the server were vocally complaining about the guy, then they probably didn't just press 1 for no reason either. As an admin, I would not have kicked him for it, but speaking as a regular player with personal preferences, I'd have voted in favor of the kick. Just saying. I really don't see how anyone could view this as donor abuse. So since he wasn't using his donor privileges to spam the vote until it passed, unless you can show that the medic he was votekicking was NOT griefing, then you have nothing to support your accusation that his vote reason was inaccurate.

[- Mike - 2,728]

If he truly was doing nothing but standing in a corner pocketing a sniper, then that sounds very idle to me

#harsh

medic healing sniper

=griefing/idle/mightaswellbehacking

[Chez-Box 3,240]

there are some snipers that with a pocket can turn into an unstoppable frag machine, #justsaying

[JMaster299 654]

Medics are supposed to heal, the medic was healing. It does not matter if he was healing 1 person or 20 people, he was still healing and fulfilling his role on the team. Saying a medic is being idle for healing 1 person is like saying an engineer is idle because they choose to camp the intel instead of the the courtyard on 2Fort. They will spend most of their time not doing anything, but they are still furthering the objective.

One thing that I have seen in my 10+ months on Lotus servers is people aren't allowed to police how others choose to play, so long as that play is not abusive or disruptive. Not everyone will like or agree with a medic pocket healing a sniper, but it is not something that is either abusive or disruptive. Neither player is wasting a slot being "idle" like the trade spammers as they are both actively playing.

We don't allow people to vote kick/ban people for using things like gunslinger, so how can we tell someone they can't pocket heal a sniper? As other people pointed out a sniper+medic combo can be very effective. If two people choose to play together that way how does it help the server if we tolerate people who try to chase them away just because they don't like it. You can't say it's being idle for a medic to pocket heal a sniper, but not a heavy, just because the heavy has to run into the middle of the battle to get his kills.

This donor may not have a history of spamming votes but his reason for calling the vote was still invalid. Also, just because a vote passes does not mean the vote was justified. Server rules and policies should not be ignored just because random kids voted for something. So in the case maybe the person does not need a ban or to have their donor privileges taken away, but it would be useful for a staff member to give them a heads up that BS votes are not OK.

Edited October 29, 2013 by JMaster299

[Kitten 1,813]

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[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

Folks. Wrong place for this discussion, imo.

[Jabberwock 273]

Slightly confused as this isn't in the ban request section, myself.

[luop90 4,400]

Slightly confused as this isn't in the ban request section, myself.

I had no idea where to put it. The donor abusing power text just says just go to lotusclan.com and a ban for this seemed a bit harsh for me considering from what I'm hearing that hes never done this before. I had seen other things similar to this on this forum because its not "protected" so non-lotus personal can report it. From what I heard the banning section was for people hacking / exploiting.

Personally, this seems like a fuzzy line for me. If a medic sat in spawn and healed someone, we'd say he was afk. If he sat in court and healed an engie, we'd probably say he was afk. Sitting on the bats keeping a sniper overhealed.... It all depends on the circumstances.

Regardless of whether he should have started this kick or not, one instance of a donor initiating a kick that other people on the server clearly wanted doesn't seem like abuse to me. If it's something that continues to happen, then we might need to have a talk with him. I would recommend starting a demo in the future. This will also record voice. Just open the console (~) and type "record donor)or w/e)" "status" and then finally "stop" when you're done recording.

Well it was vaccinator so it was slightly more than just an over-healed sniper.

As for the demo, most of it happened pretty quick. They where complaining when the other team was pushing in but when we pushed out all but Doctor_is_in stopped commenting on it so I thought it was over. Than the kick started and it was done. For the screenshots I got those like 3-5 minutes after the event happened.

Edited October 29, 2013 by luop90

[BloodRedWidow 3,508]

Perhaps the medic was just trying to build uber. I sometimes pocket snipers to build ubers before I run out the front doors. But like you guys said, pocketing a sniper all the time is a bit counter productive when there are other players to heal. I can see both sides of the argument, but honestly? To me, it smells more of a donor in a bad mood, rather than abusing his privileges.
Personally, I want to know more details before I say if it's abuse, but the staff have already looked into it :3

[LjubicaZubica 5,610]

Folks. Wrong place for this discussion, imo.

Why? This is not ban section :s

I have somewhere back in my mind when I joined server: "not allowed to heal snipers all the time". It was long time ago, not sure was it on Lotus or some other server, but it was stated on "welcome screen". Anyways, it is annoying when medic only heals sniper. SpagSauce and Kitten said it nicely, so my vote goes on that side lol

It wasn´t abuse and by the look more players from his team weren´t happy about it. So if majority decided to kick him (it wasn´t a ban, it was kick) I wouldn´t call it donor abuse :s

Edited October 29, 2013 by LjubicaZubica

[Reisen 1,973]

Anyone saying a medic pocketing a sniper being useless doesn't understand how good a pocketed sniper can be.

Yeah, to hell with the prejudice.

You can help Snipers a lot by just healing them to above 150 HP already, since that way they're at least safe from quickscope headshots.

People always take on the Support Classes being pocketed because they're not spam-fucks like Demoman and Soldier, and not obese fatasses with 300 hp.

Hate the player, not the game. If a Sniper doesn't make much profit out of a medic that keeps him alive so he can keep sniping major threats (like Heavys) it's that specific player's problem. And not to be blamed on the Sniper class itself.

When pocketing boon Soldiers that hit nothing at all, people don't complain about the Medic pocketing him either. Prejudice sucks. So does MvM because of it.

Who Medic heals is Medic's business as well. I don't complain about Newbie Heavys getting a K/D of 1/10 either. Public Servers are not highlander Servers. Just because 1 Medic doesn't heal everyone, it doesn't mean the entire team is losing because of him.

Like he said, it was a server with many many people on it. 1 Medic not acting how you want it is not the end of the world. If it was, I would probably commit suicide because of 3 people idiling in spawn.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Lena

[Se7en 10,762]

I would like to hear DEATH STRIKE's view on this. LOL

[DEATH STRIKE 573]

I am a good sniper...but with a medic...I am even better.

[Novalia 6]

the whole point of a vote is just that.. to vote.. people voted.. vote passed.. democracy.

why have a voting system if you're going to just assume "people normally just push whatever number comes up" ??

change the numbers? 4 yes 5 no

dont u guys have any admins? this is easy stuff to do.

lol @ the sniper coming here to whine about the medic being kicked rofl

next time vote out the sniper chuck!

!votekick death

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

the whole point of a vote is just that.. to vote.. people voted.. vote passed.. democracy.

why have a voting system if you're going to just assume "people normally just push whatever number comes up" ??

change the numbers? 4 yes 5 no

dont u guys have any admins? this is easy stuff to do.

lol @ the sniper coming here to whine about the medic being kicked rofl

next time vote out the sniper chuck!

!votekick death

The troll is strong in this one,

As for your question: we don't change it to 4 and 5, as it wouldn't be vanilla anymore, and with Valve breaking enough stuff with every update, we try to keep our servers as "clean" as possible. This also applies to the often asked question "WTF 20 sec respawn time?".

[DEATH STRIKE 573]

Why hasn't this been locked...LOL!!

[+Dr. Obvious 14,606]

Why hasn't this been locked...LOL!!

Well, good question.

[Barbaro 466]

Well, good question.

Lock it, lock it now~